Carothers Performance Knives, Use & Abuse. Take 2

steelhunting said:
After attempting to cut a nail on top of wood or sheet metal proved to me that this fellow does not qualify to test anything. I’d rather you send him the protection which was a nice gesture and thrown the knife in the creek. I mean no disrespect to Joe x, but what a waist of a knife for common knowledge.
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I respectfully disagree. While it is far outside of the norm and how we use our knives there is legitimate value to this kind of demonstration and test. While not perfectly scientific, an intelligent and experienced viewer can learn a lot about a particular knife from his work. And it is a lot of work. I appreciate his efforts and recognize the value of it.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
I respectfully disagree. While it is far outside of the norm and how we use our knives there is legitimate value to this kind of demonstration and test. While not perfectly scientific, an intelligent and experienced viewer can learn a lot about a particular knife from his work. And it is a lot of work. I appreciate his efforts and recognize the value of it.
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Mr. Carothers I would like for you to share what you learned based on your experience. Since I am a newbie and don’t know if my intelligence will change at this point. You obviously see things in those tests that not all of us see. I’m judging on limited information. If you are testing a new tweak on heat treat or edge geometry and can’t share, I understand.
If these test are not explained what was learned, they are pointless.
 
Though I would personally never subject my knives to that level of abuse, I can see the value of the testing. A lot of folks will watch the video and HAVE to have one, based on the video alone. It’s great marketing if you ask me. Though I don’t agree with treating my blades this way, I understand.
 
I loved this test. It is definitely in his top 3 for the year. His high praise for the knife may not mean much to many here, but considering that all he does is destroy blades, it is a mark of high respect to both Nathan and the knife. He really enjoyed this test and it showed. I love it when a good thing comes together.

Another poster commented of Joe X's 'follower's hate-fueled sails' and I'm not even sure what that means, but I don't think that is true. I watch a lot of his videos, and enjoy all of them, and I haven't seen those same negative people commenting in other videos of his. They seem like trolls to me, and 100% not representative of Joe's followers. I would just attribute it to petty jealousy of an insignificant number of certain individuals and call it noise. I also don't think we need to pick sides. I like both Joe X and Carothers...however small of a minority opinion it may be.

Nathan, thank you for your comments in the other thread about the knife competitions - something for me to dig more into. Also, I sincerely appreciate you sending this blade to him, that move speaks volumes about your integrity and your guts. Throwing up your creation on the world's stage to be destroyed and judged is something I couldn't understand unless I was in your shoes. I think it paid off. And the kevlar gloves and neck protector - very classy of you. I admire and respect you very much for that, and I'm going to go ahead and pay for a membership here to be more involved on these forums, in large part to your openness around freedom of discussion and just being super chill. Thank you.

Like Nathan, I'm also going to respectfully disagree that these tests show us nothing because they include nothing about what a knife is supposed to do - which is to cut. I'm curious if the same critique got applied to Nathan's videos of the BFK going through bolts (which I loved)...probably not! Maybe everyone else just opens Amazon packages all day, but my BFK goes with me on the job and I'm constantly using it to dig, pry, hammer, open, chop and other things that some people either don't do with a knife or don't think a knife should do. Everyone's situation is different and its a big world. If I'm up on a 15ft ladder and I'm using the knife, its going to become a multi-tool no question😂 The other day I was swinging around and the handle of the knife got caught on something, and got wrapped around the handle and pulled it out and the knife dropped right on the concrete. After my heart started beating again, I picked it up, checked it out, wiped it off, and put it back in the sheath. I can't predict what I might come across on a day to day basis, but the idea of a knife being able to take more abuse that I think it should is not only a good idea, it is my reality, so I am extremely grateful for these tests. The more abuse a knife can be proven to take, the more it means I won't have to worry about it. I like that.

AND...I'd love to upgrade my BFK to a Super Beast BFK. I'm down for a small run of these. My preference is actually for a prybar that just happens to cut as well😛

Both CPK and Joe X won today, and I'm super happy for both.
 
91bravo said:
It’s nice to know they can be abused beyond what they were designed for, and still work as a cutting tool. Better his knife than mine!
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Well, full disclosure: the standard BFK is .188 and that one was .250. If you do those things with your knife, it will not be the same as what he got from that knife. They are similar lineage, similar design, same metallurgy, but that extra 16th of an inch has a huge effect on strength (good), but also cutting ability (bad) because I added it starting directly behind the edge.

The effects of thickness on a blade is nonlinear. Both in stiffness, durability, and cutting characteristics. When you double the width of a beam it becomes twice as stiff, but when you double the thickness of that beam it becomes 8 times as stiff. The math gets weird in the geometries of the knife blade, but the concept stays the same.

That knife was tailor-made for the application. It cut well for him in these cut tests because he is a skilled cutter and he is strong, but if you were using it as a tradesman, you would probably prefer the standard version.

The Field knife is intended to be a tradesman's knife, bushcrafting tool, skinner for large game, utility tool that can take anything you can dish at it (within reason), that you keep in your toolbox or glove box or belt but not intended to be completely unbreakable. It is intended to be a good cutter and a high performance cutting tool that tolerates rough use and abuse without concern, but it can certainly be broken if you put your mind to it.

And he broke one. Which hurt my feelings a little bit. I was being a whiny little bitch and made him a heavy duty version of it that I figured he couldn't break.

And he figured he could break it.

Classic example of unstoppable force hits immovable object.

He has broken a lot of knives. It's possible he may have broken more knives than I have, and that there has real value. The time and money and skill set required to duplicate his particular personal knowledge base is very significant. He has a level of experience that has few peers in this one thing.

I have designed, built and tested more knives than most people. Very few people alive could claim to duplicate my resume there. My knife development process is far more involved than most people who do their designs looking at a computer screen rather than actually running it through its paces. Not to be a big headed megalomaniac here, but I consider myself exceptional in this aspect.

I had a pretty good idea of exactly what needed to be built for his particular test, and he recognized that as soon as he saw it and then upped his game significantly. Both my knife and Joe X had a lot of work to do and I'm very pleased with the performance of both of us, it demonstrated a real dedication on his part and real performance on mine.

A lot of people who haven't really used these kinds of tools and seeing how they work and how they fail will look at that video and not really understand or appreciate it. But his work on this video approaches that of a marathon (there are few people participating on this forum who could duplicate what he did there. I participate in Blade sports, I know what I'm talking about here. And I saw your run on knife or death, I know that you know what you're talking about here too), and the performance of the knife was exactly what I had expected, hoped for, prayed for, but with all of the variables present, I could not really say for certain what was going to happen.

I built a "survivor" and he upped his game. As he should have, upon seeing the knife.

Anyway, I hope he is as impressed having tested an exceptional example of the modern state of the art knife as I am in his testing of it. It really is a cool video. At least in my opinion. I might be in the minority here, but I think this entire thing was awesome.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
Well, full disclosure: the standard BFK is .188 and that one was .250. If you do those things with your knife, it will not be the same as what he got from that knife. They are similar lineage, similar design, same metallurgy, but that extra 16th of an inch has a huge effect on strength (good), but also cutting ability (bad) because I added it starting directly behind the edge.

The effects of thickness on a blade is nonlinear. Both in stiffness, durability, and cutting characteristics. When you double the width of a beam it becomes twice as stiff, but when you double the thickness of that beam it becomes 8 times as stiff. The math gets weird in the geometries of the knife blade, but the concept stays the same.

That knife was tailor-made for the application. It cut well for him in these cut tests because he is a skilled cutter and he is strong, but if you were using it as a tradesman, you would probably prefer the standard version.

The Field knife is intended to be a tradesman's knife, bushcrafting tool, skinner for large game, utility tool that can take anything you can dish at it (within reason), that you keep in your toolbox or glove box or belt but not intended to be completely unbreakable. It is intended to be a good cutter and a high performance cutting tool that tolerates rough use and abuse without concern, but it can certainly be broken if you put your mind to it.

And he broke one. Which hurt my feelings a little bit. I was being a whiny little bitch and made him a heavy duty version of it that I figured he couldn't break.

And he figured he could break it.

Classic example of unstoppable force hits immovable object.

He has broken a lot of knives. It's possible he may have broken more knives than I have, and that there has real value. The time and money and skill set required to duplicate his particular personal knowledge base is very significant. He has a level of experience that has few peers in this one thing.

I have designed, built and tested more knives than most people. Very few people alive could claim to duplicate my resume there. My knife development process is far more involved than most people who do their designs looking at a computer screen rather than actually running it through its paces. Not to be a big headed megalomaniac here, but I consider myself exceptional in this aspect.

I had a pretty good idea of exactly what needed to be built for his particular test, and he recognized that as soon as he saw it and then upped his game significantly. Both my knife and Joe X had a lot of work to do and I'm very pleased with the performance of both of us, it demonstrated a real dedication on his part and real performance on mine.

A lot of people who haven't really used these kinds of tools and seeing how they work and how they fail will look at that video and not really understand or appreciate it. But his work on this video approaches that of a marathon (there are few people participating on this forum who could duplicate what he did there. I participate in Blade sports, I know what I'm talking about here. And I saw your run on knife or death, I know that you know what you're talking about here too), and the performance of the knife was exactly what I had expected, hoped for, prayed for, but with all of the variables present, I could not really say for certain what was going to happen.

I built a "survivor" and he upped his game. As he should have, upon seeing the knife.

Anyway, I hope he is as impressed having tested an exceptional example of the modern state of the art knife as I am in his testing of it. It really is a cool video. At least in my opinion. I might be in the minority here, but I think this entire thing was awesome.
Click to expand...
I missed the fact that the knife you sent him was 1/4” thick. Still, his tests are beyond what any of us would subject our CPKs to. The worst abuse I put my knives through is chopping and batoning through seasoned hard woods, which pales in comparison to Joe X’s tip prying, metal chopping, stone chopping and hood stabbing. Upon seeing these destructive tests, it really builds my confidence in the performance of CPK knives. I have 100% faith in my CPKs for what I use them for. I know that they will last a lifetime and will be tools I could pass down to the next generation to use.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
Anyway, I hope he is as impressed having tested an exceptional example of the modern state of the art knife as I am in his testing of it. It really is a cool video. At least in my opinion. I might be in the minority here, but I think this entire thing was awesome.
Click to expand...
Nathan, I'm sure you caught it, but him saying 'I want another one of these' is the highest praise that he could have possibly offered - he destroys a LOT of knives, but when he finds one he truly loves, he wants one to not destroy but to keep for his collection.


Nathan the Machinist said:
I had a pretty good idea of exactly what needed to be built for his particular test, and he recognized that as soon as he saw it and then upped his game significantly. Both my knife and Joe X had a lot of work to do and I'm very pleased with the performance of both of us, it demonstrated a real dedication on his part and real performance on mine.
Click to expand...
When I sent in the first one, I thought it would be really cool and it was. But this...this has exceeded every expectation I had and the outcome is better than what I could have possibly hoped for. I'm so glad you guys found a similar wavelength. I detect a mutual respect and that is really cool to hear from both of you.
 
Red Leader said:
I loved this test. It is definitely in his top 3 for the year. His high praise for the knife may not mean much to many here, but considering that all he does is destroy blades, it is a mark of high respect to both Nathan and the knife. He really enjoyed this test and it showed. I love it when a good thing comes together.

Another poster commented of Joe X's 'follower's hate-fueled sails' and I'm not even sure what that means, but I don't think that is true. I watch a lot of his videos, and enjoy all of them, and I haven't seen those same negative people commenting in other videos of his. They seem like trolls to me, and 100% not representative of Joe's followers. I would just attribute it to petty jealousy of an insignificant number of certain individuals and call it noise. I also don't think we need to pick sides. I like both Joe X and Carothers...however small of a minority opinion it may be.

Nathan, thank you for your comments in the other thread about the knife competitions - something for me to dig more into. Also, I sincerely appreciate you sending this blade to him, that move speaks volumes about your integrity and your guts. Throwing up your creation on the world's stage to be destroyed and judged is something I couldn't understand unless I was in your shoes. I think it paid off. And the kevlar gloves and neck protector - very classy of you. I admire and respect you very much for that, and I'm going to go ahead and pay for a membership here to be more involved on these forums, in large part to your openness around freedom of discussion and just being super chill. Thank you.

Like Nathan, I'm also going to respectfully disagree that these tests show us nothing because they include nothing about what a knife is supposed to do - which is to cut. I'm curious if the same critique got applied to Nathan's videos of the BFK going through bolts (which I loved)...probably not! Maybe everyone else just opens Amazon packages all day, but my BFK goes with me on the job and I'm constantly using it to dig, pry, hammer, open, chop and other things that some people either don't do with a knife or don't think a knife should do. Everyone's situation is different and its a big world. If I'm up on a 15ft ladder and I'm using the knife, its going to become a multi-tool no question😂 The other day I was swinging around and the handle of the knife got caught on something, and got wrapped around the handle and pulled it out and the knife dropped right on the concrete. After my heart started beating again, I picked it up, checked it out, wiped it off, and put it back in the sheath. I can't predict what I might come across on a day to day basis, but the idea of a knife being able to take more abuse that I think it should is not only a good idea, it is my reality, so I am extremely grateful for these tests. The more abuse a knife can be proven to take, the more it means I won't have to worry about it. I like that.

AND...I'd love to upgrade my BFK to a Super Beast BFK. I'm down for a small run of these. My preference is actually for a prybar that just happens to cut as well😛

Both CPK and Joe X won today, and I'm super happy for both.
Click to expand...
Hello! I should clarify, I was not referring to Joe's followers as a whole, just the ones who's sails seem to be fueled by their "hater" mentality. After scrolling through the comments section of the busse tests he performed, you are sure to encounter the fine specimens I'm referring to.
 
Also I mentioned it elsewhere...

The tip stabbing into the roof of the car was in one of the most structurally stout parts of a car.... you can see the reinforcement beam as the roof skin is collapsing behind the windshield

This beam and other structures around it prevent the roof from collapsing in a roll over ...... that stuff is insanely tough
 
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