Cheap knives are a bad idea.

[Chapp]

Countless people throughout history and around the world, up to the present day, have used knives that you would categorize as too dangerous and useless to be tools; many of whom often used (and still use) their knives MUCH harder to make a living on a day-to-day basis than a high percentage (most?) of today's 'knife aficionados'). They couldn't have done so if the knives they had were useless as tools.

Bad point imo. We also used horses for centuries. Then we invented engines and never looked back.

Same about knives. Yes you could be fine with an Opinel or slip joint, but why the hassle ? Why using outdated design when you can have something like a mini-grip or a DF G10 for slightly more than 100$ ?

The only reason I have an opinel is too put it in my car. If it get stolen, I could care less.

 

[Night Rider]

Wow! 5 pages for a bogus blanket statement and a fact flawed thread, nice one Op. According to you I should toss these cheap pieces of away even though they have helped me pay my utility bills, house mortgage, new hot tub bill, and put 2 of my 4 boys through collage . What was I thinking . Yes I have knives in the $250 range but these knives are my work horses with the $20 dollar SOG AEGIS FL being my #1 go to work knife. I'm going to make my own factless based blanket statement and say that knives in this price range make up the majority of knife sales in the United States and All of these knives have been dragged through the mud and dropped off ladders onto concrete. Also they have all made at least 2 trips apiece through the laundry, washed and dried . Super Steels are great but not needed in a real work environment and 8Cr13MoV is easily sharpened and tunes up quickly on a strop at the end of the week. In my 37 years of working construction I have NEVER seen a Sabenza or a Hinderer or even a ZT on the job site. Do the other workers own some? probably but they choose to use the right tool for the job and Sub $90 dollar knives are the knives they prefer to use to keep America growing while their super steel sprint runs stay at home in the safe LOL.

 

[rogatsby]

Bad point imo. We also used horses for centuries. Then we invented engines and never looked back.

Same about knives. Yes you could be fine with an Opinel or slip joint, but why the hassle ? Why using outdated design when you can have something like a mini-grip or a DF G10 for slightly more than 100$ ?

The only reason I have an opinel is too put it in my car. If it get stolen, I could care less.

The point that I and many others have tried to make in this thread is that your picking an arbitrary price point and labeling all knives under that price point as junk is simply wrong and irrational. There are many, many knives that cost under $90 that are quality tools, have solid materials, and are safe, proven knives. So I ask you, is a $70 Delica 4 or $80 Endura 4 junk? How about a $40 Ontario Rat 2 in D2 steel?

As for Opinels, I and lots of other people still use them because they are cool, and they do something that knives are actually meant to do - slice and cut. And they still do this better than almost any other pocket knives in existence, including super expensive modern folding knives. In fact, one of the reasons I still use my Opinels and my cheaper proven folders like the Delica is because they are excellent slicers. So many of the pricier modern folders these days have bad blade geometry and are super thick.

 

[22-rimfire]

Bad point imo. We also used horses for centuries. Then we invented engines and never looked back.

Same about knives. Yes you could be fine with an Opinel or slip joint, but why the hassle ? Why using outdated design when you can have something like a mini-grip or a DF G10 for slightly more than 100$ ?

The only reason I have an opinel is too put it in my car. If it get stolen, I could care less.

Welcome back Chapp. Happy Easter.

Slip joints work very well for cutting. It is not an "outdated" design. It is just a different design, but immensely practical and functional for a pocket knife.

I generally would not get all that excited loosing an Opinel from my car. (If I owned one?) What I get excited about is all the other stuff that they may have taken and violated MY SPACE in the process.

People still ride horses and love them (just like they love slip joints). I am generally not one of those people with horses. Give me a motor cycle or motor vehicle in general.

 

[marchone]

I went on a Plains game safari in Namibia years ago. The Harare trackers all used cheap stamped kitchen knives with plastic handles they sharpened on field stones. They made quick work of everything from birds to tough-skinned kudu, wildebeest and zebra with ease. None of the hunters, including me, got to use their expensive fixed blades.

On another hunt in Texas I field dressed a Rio Grande turkey with an SAK I had on me. The ranch hands didn't get back to me for over an hour and I had to cool down the big bird quickly in the midday heat.

 

[Boxer .45]

(Limit of characters reached)






The problem is, I had a Delica and I have a Dragonfly 2, like you can see in a picture below.

They're decent knives, but I sold the Delica because I got what I paid for : a back-lock lock with plastic handles, a blade that dull fast and some blade play after sometimes. I liked it for what it was, but I couldn't trust it that much.
The Dragonfly 2 inspire even less confidence. You could basically slap it with your hands. It has no liners, no washers, it's basically a blade scratching against plastic. I still like it because I think the design in itself is great, probably the best for a small knife. Problem is, there are too many downsides. Now, the G10 Dragonfly is another kind of beast and what I would consider a great starting point for a knife and probably one of the best EDC around for its size, but it's past the 90$ price point. I'm still in-shock Spyderco doesn't make it in various colors with a better blade material... I like you Spyderco, but your second to none when it's about leaving money on the table.

Next, the Benchmade Grip. I had the "big" one and the mini-grip, classic plastic versions for both (not the G10 ones). The big griptilian felt like a cheap knife sold for 100$. It's just an awful knife. The design is great, but cheap plastic handles and the partial liners are a deal breaker for me. It feels cheap and fragile. The mini-grip is what I consider the BARE MINIMUM for a folder. It has washers, great design, full liners and I abuse it on daily basis. Great knife, I have it, I carry it on me all the time, but afaik, it's past the 90$ price range.

Don't get me started on Kershaw. Bad brand of assisted crap people like for reasons I can't understand. Outside of collecting or impulse buying (which I'm also guilty of sometimes), why buy a kershaw crap knife when you can spend a little more and get a mini-grip or a G10 Dragonfly ?



Why should I be afraid of getting angry reactions ? I posted a controversial opinion on a discussion board of knife enthousiast. It's like going on a video-game forums and saying "A link to the past" sucks ball and always had or that Ocarina of time is one of the most boring game ever made (which are both true, nonetheless). You'll get hate and I could care less about it. I always question stuff, I don't care about the Doxa.

Second, I'm quite well-versed in cheap knives. I spend months buying a lot of them, testing them... Actually, you can see I've still some of them :

I use to have even more than that for testing purpose. I've tested probably more than 30. That's what I consider being an enthousiast : you want to test the most you can to forge an opinion. That's what I do, I test a lot of knife, I look at them, open them, ask a lot of questions to companies, I watch inside... I don't speak from my ass like many outhere who just want to have a safe opinion on the dollars they spent. Yes, when you're a snowflakes, it hurts to know that someone consider the knives you like as a cheap tools you shouldn't trust that much. That's why you teach your children to not take opinion as personal attack.



Everything is an opinion when it comes to hobby and fanboys. You can't get fact across when feeling are involved.

You want a hard/true fact that backs me up : remove the price tag from any knives, let people chose and you'd see people pick knives around 100-250 over cheap plastic knife like a Rat-2 or a Cutjack mini. That's a fact for you.



I live at the Switzerland frontier, in France (you know the country who makes opinel), nobody here cares about Opinel and Victorinox here. We all know they're full of marketing because we had them for decades. Only foreigners buy those thinking they made a bargain. Only victorinox worth buying are past the 100$ price range.

Victorinox are somewhat servicable multi-tools, but shit knives, that's what we all think of them here. Unless you only use them to cut cheese and paper, which isn't my case.




If cutting is all that matters, I can also grind a junk piece of metal and use it to cut. It will works. A knife isn't just about cutting. It's about the design, the blade material, the heat threatment, the action, the lock sturdiness/the tang solidity, quality washers, non-plastic handles, a versatile blade grind... That's what a knife should be about. I've yet to see that full package in sub 100$ knives, hence why I draw the line at that price-range. If you have an exemple of a full-package for me, I'd be really curious to see it.



The vast majority isn't always right. I've also used cheap "mall" knives to cook for most of my life. I was doing "fine", they did cut ingredients, but I didn't know any better. I bought better quality knives to cook and never looked back since then. They don't get dull as fast (you don't want a dull knife in a kitchen if you enjoy having fingers), they're great to hold, they're not made of plastic, they're made by companies I actually trust...

For EDC, being french, I used an opinel for some years, it was working fine. It actually cut things and was easy to sharpen. Then I bought a Mini-grip and Para-2, which made me understood what good knives were. That's what made me an enthousiast. Never looked back. I still buy cheap knives to test them, but I've yet to see one that made me consider to look back.

Edited by staff for inappropriate language. Please make your points by using language which other members will not find offensive.

Now you're just being silly!

 

[James Y]

You're right, and I fell for it.

Jim

Bad point imo. We also used horses for centuries. Then we invented engines and never looked back.

Same about knives. Yes you could be fine with an Opinel or slip joint, but why the hassle ? Why using outdated design when you can have something like a mini-grip or a DF G10 for slightly more than 100$ ?

The only reason I have an opinel is too put it in my car. If it get stolen, I could care less.

The difference between horses as primary transportation and modern engines, and useful but inexpensive knives (what you deem 'useless as tools') and modern, over-$90 knives, is not even comparable.

If you have a problem with such knives, then it's only your opinion, and any issues and 'lack of safety' is because you don't really know how to handle knives, not the knives themselves. If you handle even a slip-joint knife correctly, it will not 'slap' (sic) on you.

You can have any opinion you want. The one in you're making in this thread is still wrong.

Jim

 

[Chapp]

The point that I and many others have tried to make in this thread is that your picking an arbitrary price point and labeling all knives under that price point as junk is simply wrong and irrational. There are many, many knives that cost under $90 that are quality tools, have solid materials, and are safe, proven knives.

Read better then, I already explained why I draw the line at the 100$ price-range. It's as arbitrary as everything when it comes to discussion about a hobby.

You disagree, fine, but don't try to discredit the discussion because it's not about facts. When people told you 20$ slip joint are servicable, it's an opinion, nothing more and strangely I see less hot takes about it.

So I ask you, is a $70 Delica 4 or $80 Endura 4 junk? How about a $40 Ontario Rat 2 in D2 steel?

Yes, especially the Rat-2. Plastic handles, made in China, poor heat threatment that make their D2 steel a bitch to sharpen compared to many other blade, aluminium thin liners you shouldn't trust, bad QC. Plus, it looks like ass.

As for Opinels, I and lots of other people still use them because they are cool, and they do something that knives are actually meant to do - slice and cut. And they still do this better than almost any other pocket knives in existence, including super expensive modern folding knives. In fact, one of the reasons I still use my Opinels and my cheaper proven folders like the Delica is because they are excellent slicers. So many of the pricier modern folders these days have bad blade geometry and are super thick.

Keep buying opinels mate, it helps France economy. Just don't try to pass them as what they're not. They're just nice tradition knife for curious people, not great knife you should rely on. It tells a lot when french people don't buy them that often. Most of sale come from foreigners. Opinel have no clip, two hands opening, you can't soak them because the joint will block for whatever reasons, nail opening (ew), fragile grind and I wouldn't trust the lock that much... That's what I call an outdated design, they're impractical. Like I said, tradition knife for people who're curious about it, nothing more. Let's not even talk about how impractical they are to carry in your pocket. They're thick and take way too much space.

You can get them insanely sharp, but there's more about knives than just a sharp edge. That's reducting the scope of what make a knife great.

The difference between horses as primary transportation and modern engines, and useful but inexpensive knives (what you deem 'useless as tools') and modern, over-$90 knives, is not even comparable.

If you have a problem with such knives, then it's only your opinion, and any issues and 'lack of safety' is because you don't really know how to handle knives, not the knives themselves. If you handle even a slip-joint knife correctly, it will not 'slap' (sic) on you.

You can have any opinion you want. The one in you're making in this thread is still wrong.

Jim

The old "you don't know how to use them" used frequently by people that can't argue, despite spending their life on those boards. It's a knife lad, not rocket science. You sound like those delusional higonokami stans. Bad design is bad design. When you have to actually have gross nails to open a knife, it's a bad design, period.

 

[rogatsby]

(Limit of characters reached)






The problem is, I had a Delica and I have a Dragonfly 2, like you can see in a picture below.

They're decent knives, but I sold the Delica because I got what I paid for : a back-lock lock with plastic handles, a blade that dull fast and some blade play after sometimes. I liked it for what it was, but I couldn't trust it that much.
The Dragonfly 2 inspire even less confidence. You could basically slap it with your hands. It has no liners, no washers, it's basically a blade scratching against plastic. I still like it because I think the design in itself is great, probably the best for a small knife. Problem is, there are too many downsides. Now, the G10 Dragonfly is another kind of beast and what I would consider a great starting point for a knife and probably one of the best EDC around for its size, but it's past the 90$ price point. I'm still in-shock Spyderco doesn't make it in various colors with a better blade material... I like you Spyderco, but your second to none when it's about leaving money on the table.

Next, the Benchmade Grip. I had the "big" one and the mini-grip, classic plastic versions for both (not the G10 ones). The big griptilian felt like a cheap knife sold for 100$. It's just an awful knife. The design is great, but cheap plastic handles and the partial liners are a deal breaker for me. It feels cheap and fragile. The mini-grip is what I consider the BARE MINIMUM for a folder. It has washers, great design, full liners and I abuse it on daily basis. Great knife, I have it, I carry it on me all the time, but afaik, it's past the 90$ price range.

Don't get me started on Kershaw. Bad brand of assisted crap people like for reasons I can't understand. Outside of collecting or impulse buying (which I'm also guilty of sometimes), why buy a kershaw crap knife when you can spend a little more and get a mini-grip or a G10 Dragonfly ?



Why should I be afraid of getting angry reactions ? I posted a controversial opinion on a discussion board of knife enthousiast. It's like going on a video-game forums and saying "A link to the past" sucks ball and always had or that Ocarina of time is one of the most boring game ever made (which are both true, nonetheless). You'll get hate and I could care less about it. I always question stuff, I don't care about the Doxa.

Second, I'm quite well-versed in cheap knives. I spend months buying a lot of them, testing them... Actually, you can see I've still some of them :

I use to have even more than that for testing purpose. I've tested probably more than 30. That's what I consider being an enthousiast : you want to test the most you can to forge an opinion. That's what I do, I test a lot of knife, I look at them, open them, ask a lot of questions to companies, I watch inside... I don't speak from my ass like many outhere who just want to have a safe opinion on the dollars they spent. Yes, when you're a snowflakes, it hurts to know that someone consider the knives you like as a cheap tools you shouldn't trust that much. That's why you teach your children to not take opinion as personal attack.



Everything is an opinion when it comes to hobby and fanboys. You can't get fact across when feeling are involved.

You want a hard/true fact that backs me up : remove the price tag from any knives, let people chose and you'd see people pick knives around 100-250 over cheap plastic knife like a Rat-2 or a Cutjack mini. That's a fact for you.



I live at the Switzerland frontier, in France (you know the country who makes opinel), nobody here cares about Opinel and Victorinox here. We all know they're full of marketing because we had them for decades. Only foreigners buy those thinking they made a bargain. Only victorinox worth buying are past the 100$ price range.

Victorinox are somewhat servicable multi-tools, but shit knives, that's what we all think of them here. Unless you only use them to cut cheese and paper, which isn't my case.




If cutting is all that matters, I can also grind a junk piece of metal and use it to cut. It will works. A knife isn't just about cutting. It's about the design, the blade material, the heat threatment, the action, the lock sturdiness/the tang solidity, quality washers, non-plastic handles, a versatile blade grind... That's what a knife should be about. I've yet to see that full package in sub 100$ knives, hence why I draw the line at that price-range. If you have an exemple of a full-package for me, I'd be really curious to see it.



The vast majority isn't always right. I've also used cheap "mall" knives to cook for most of my life. I was doing "fine", they did cut ingredients, but I didn't know any better. I bought better quality knives to cook and never looked back since then. They don't get dull as fast (you don't want a dull knife in a kitchen if you enjoy having fingers), they're great to hold, they're not made of plastic, they're made by companies I actually trust...

For EDC, being french, I used an opinel for some years, it was working fine. It actually cut things and was easy to sharpen. Then I bought a Mini-grip and Para-2, which made me understood what good knives were. That's what made me an enthousiast. Never looked back. I still buy cheap knives to test them, but I've yet to see one that made me consider to look back.

Edited by staff for inappropriate language. Please make your points by using language which other members will not find offensive.

Read better then, I already explained why I draw the line at the 100$ price-range. It's as arbitrary as everything when it comes to discussion about a hobby.

You disagree, fine, but don't try to discredit the discussion because it's not about facts. When people told you 20$ slip joint are servicable, it's an opinion, nothing more and strangely I see less hot takes about it.



Yes, especially the Rat-2. Plastic handles, made in China, poor heat threatment that make their D2 steel a bitch to sharpen compared to many other blade, aluminium thin liners you shouldn't trust, bad QC. Plus, it looks like ass.



Keep buying opinels mate, it helps France economy. Just don't try to pass them as what they're not. They're just nice tradition knife for curious people, not great knife you should rely on. It tells a lot when french people don't buy them that often. Most of sale come from foreigners. Opinel have no clip, two hands opening, you can't soak them because the joint will block for whatever reasons, nail opening (ew), fragile grind and I wouldn't trust the lock that much... That's what I call an outdated design, they're impractical. Like I said, tradition knife for people who're curious about it, nothing more. Let's not even talk about how impractical they are to carry in your pocket. They're thick and take way too much space.

You can get them insanely sharp, but there's more about knives than just a sharp edge. That's reducting the scope of what make a knife great.



The dumb and old "you don't know how to use them" used frequently by people that can't argue for shit, despite spending their life on those boards. It's a slip joint knife lad, not rocket science. You sound like those delusional higonokami stans.

OK. Thanks for confirming that you don't know what you are talking about. Now I can ignore this thread. Cheers!

 

[Chapp]

OK. Thanks for confirming that you don't know what you are talking about. Now I can ignore this thread. Cheers!

Sorry to burst your comfy bubble.

 

[Boxer .45]

Sorry to burst your comfy bubble.

Yeah! Chapp is the new forum Guru. We don't have to have options or know the facts anymore, we can just ask him and be humbled by his wisdom.

 

[A.L.]

Everything is an opinion when it comes to hobby and fanboys. You can't get fact across when feeling are involved.

You want a hard/true fact that backs me up : remove the price tag from any knives, let people chose and you'd see people pick knives around 100-250 over cheap plastic knife like a Rat-2 or a Cutjack mini. That's a fact for you.

You put houses or cars to choose and people choose the nicest houses. Obviously. Still doesn't answer the question why cheap knives are bad idea.

Are affordable cars bad idea? Is cheaper living expenses bad idea?

There's facts for you.

 

[craytab]

Esee knives are way more expensive in my country than they are in the US, especially at retails. An Izula 2 is close to 115$ here and slightly more expensive at retail. They're more expensive in Europe, in Canada, in Brasil and in Japan from what I know for certain. In fact they're more expensive basically everywhere outside of the US. The world isn't limited to the US.

You are posting on a US based forum. You are making your argument in US based currency, about US produced knives. You don't list where you are located. I'm sorry that wherever you live has such horrible knife prices. Not really my problem though. I'm dealing within the context of the argument you have proposed. Be more clear if you want to have a serious discussion. I don't know what a $90 knife costs for you in your undisclosed location. For me, here in the US, where this forum is located, talking about the knives you discussed in the OP, and in the currency you mention, a fantastic sub $90 knife can easily be had, from the brand you mention no less.

 

[craytab]

Like I said, not all expensive knives are reliable or good ; see ZT knives and how they can snap on your finger if you hit the back of the blade. **** design.

Oh, and none of my ZTs have had an issue. All even pass a little spine whack. Top tip: use the sharpened part of the blade. It's a cutting tool.

 

[craytab]

Okay, so you're from France. Got it.

Yes, especially the Rat-2. Plastic handles, made in China, poor heat threatment that make their D2 steel a bitch to sharpen compared to many other blade, aluminium thin liners you shouldn't trust, bad QC. Plus, it looks like ***.

Remember when I called you on your in accurate facts earlier? You are still getting them wrong. No one will take your ridiculous arguments seriously if you continue to fail at basic, easily attainable facts.

And I believe you were already warned about your offensive language.

 

[Rykjeklut]

Yeah! Chapp is the new forum Guru. We don't have to have options or know the facts anymore, we can just ask him and be humbled by his wisdom.

Who was that guy who always put down modern steels, while batoning with ridiculous folders?

They would have hit it off.

 

[craytab]

Who was that guy who always put down modern steels, while batoning with ridiculous folders?

They would have hit it off.

Gaston. I don't know though. He claimed an inexpensive Kershaw in 8cr he bought but never used was better than a CRK, which he also never owned or used.

 

[Danke42]

Checks online translator.

Everything I like is great.

Everything anyone else likes is junk.

 

[Mecha]

...nail opening (ew)...

When you have to actually have gross nails to open a knife, it's a bad design, period.

What you got against fingernails?

 

[Murdamook]

Is there a reason OP hasn’t been banned yet? Forget the troll post, he’s done nothing but use bad language and insult other contributors? Why is this thread still even open? At least move it to W&C so this guy can get shredded.