Cheap yet Well made Katana

B

BlakeK

Joined
Jun 13, 2014
Messages
31
Unbelievably!... On Ebay of all places.

I'm rather new to the sword collecting hobby. One thing i've found is that some of the older collectors can be a bit "Snobbish" in believing nothing but the finest Albion swords or genuine Tamahagane Katanas are worthy of discussion, let alone purchase.

A few weeks back i bought a Ronin Katana Dojo Pro series heavy Cutter. I'd been well informed by pretty much everybody that it was possibly the best functional Katana in it's price range before you start spending big money on serious pieces. I agree, it's a great sword at a very affordable price... But then i got to thinking, is it possible to find another sword that can match it in durability, edge retention and price?

I took off to Ebay and found literally dozens (if not hundreds) of Chinese made Katanas ranging in price, until i found something that caught my eye. It was one of those customize your sword deals that you are usually best avoiding, but this one was different. It boasted a clay tempered, differentially treated T10 high Carbon steel blade with a full Tang, genuine Ray Skin AND a genuine Hamon... Mostly what you would expect for a �300 sword like the RK Dojo Pro, But this sword was priced at half that at $149. I bought it just out of the intrigue and then instantly regretted my instinctual purchase... Until that is the day it arrived. As soon as i removed the sword from the Saya i knew it meant business. It was surprisingly sharp and Low and behold, their was a Hamon and it Was real... But more than that, the sword just "Felt" right. In fact, it felt just like the Dojo pro. It is big, beefy and chunky. I took it out back and proceeded to hack through all the targets i had left (thick plastitic water bottles mostly and a couple of tipple rolled tatami mates) and it cleanly dispatched of everything i threw at it.

I was amazed TBH. The sword itself is actually not bad looking either (besides the cheap, Alloy Tsuba). After hacking my targets to pieces, i wiped down the blade and there isn't a single nick or blemish to be found. I thought that at such a low price it would edge roll like crazy and there would be perhaps even some blade warping. But it turns out that you actually can buy a very good, serviceable Katana for dirt cheap prices. you just have to do a bit of digging :)

Here's a few pics of the sword in question from the morning it arrived:

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if your happy with it, thats what matters.
i have my ronin dojo pro next to my Ar-15 next to the bed...i bought it for the purpose it was oringinally made and designed for...a weapon.
the four best options IMO for katana under $300 are
cheness
hanwei
ronin
cold steel(dynasty forge)
 
There are occasionally serviceable blades to be had for affordable prices, although what makes it count as good really depends on what you expect out of it. Terrible fittings are a common complaint among more inexpensive blades. The tsuba on your piece wouldn't do for many collectors at all, for instance, as you seem to have already surmised. I can't say it's exactly my cup of tea; it looks a little too fantasy-esque for my tastes. But that's not why you bought it, and the important thing is that it does what it needs to do for YOU. That's all any of us ask of swords.

You also do most of the members here a disservice when you assume that we're generalizing to all cheap katana. It's more true to say that if the seller doesn't advertise the steel type and provide information about the heat treat and hardness, it's not worth buying. And I don't think that's an unfair thing to say. If, as in this case, they do advertise the steel, you have much better odds of getting something worth your money. It doesn't guarantee it (and you may find that there's a flaw after a while, or find that it's not the advertised steel after having a spectral analysis done, as is common for Chinese blades), but it certainly improves the odds, because if it's not as advertised, that opens sellers up to "item not as advertised" claims, which are almost always won by the buyer.

As with all things, you get what you pay for, and you may not NEED to pay for something really expensive. But that's why we typically ask what the buyer has in mind for the sword. Many buyers go into it wanting a genuine katana for 150 bucks. And that, this is not. And people need to understand that. There's a completely different quality level when you get into more expensive pieces. But you are right to say that, depending on your desires for the sword, you may be able to find a piece that is more affordable. Personally, I tend to stick to Hanwei, Cheness, Ronin, etc, for my budget swords, because their heat treat is well-known and consistent. That's the risk you run buying something like this. You're making assumptions about their quality control based on a sample size of one. It's great that you got a good piece, but unlike those other manufacturers, there's no guarantee that another buyer would get a piece of similar quality.

Also, to be fair, many of those cheap Chinese "high carbon steel" swords do just fine at light cutting like you mentioned. I'd be awfully disappointed if a sword got a nick from tatami or a water bottle, or even lost any sharpness after only a little cutting of that sort.
 
I agree Crimson. My post was made more out of shock than anything else. To hear certain people speak, Swords aren't even worth looking at if it isn't $1000+ ... Although my comment on Sword Snobbery wasn't aimed at anybody in particular, and not the posters one here. Mostly, i've found nothing but well put, friendly advice/opinions on here. It was aimed more at the sword collecting community as a whole. But you're right, it's all about the collector and what is satisfactory to one might not be so for another.

I also agree that in most cases, you really do get what you pay for, certainly in terms of asthetics. That Tsuba is pretty tacky but it was the best of a bad bunch. I might swap it out for a nice simple Musashi double ring style.

The fittings are again surprisingly for such low quality, very solid and the whole construction is incredibly well put together for such a cheap sword. It really does remind me of the RK series but with solid but tackier looking cheaper fittings ;)
 
Nice find!! I have a Paul Chen basic model that has stood up very well over the years. I don't cut much anymore, but it always did the job, and still looks as good as new.
 
You just gotta know what to look for. You don't always have to spend a ton of money to get a good sword. I have a Rob Criswell katana that I'm into for about $500.00. It's A2 tool steel. It's not traditional but it cuts like a monster and I'd take it over any Chitana. I'd almost always have modern materials and techniques over antiques.
 
Infi-del said:
You just gotta know what to look for. You don't always have to spend a ton of money to get a good sword. I have a Rob Criswell katana that I'm into for about $500.00. It's A2 tool steel. It's not traditional but it cuts like a monster and I'd take it over any Chitana. I'd almost always have modern materials and techniques over antiques.
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I handled a Criswell last year at The Gathering. There is a SIGNIFICANT(improvement) difference in the weight, balance and edge geometry of his current swords to ones in the past. I had one of the old ones, and it handled like a pig and wouldn't cut wara for anything, and someone else was happy to give me more than I paid for it, so I sold it.

.....now it still doesn't have the best balance and lacks a habaki....so your statement about "It's not traditional but it cuts like a monster and I'd take it over any Chitana. I'd almost always have modern materials and techniques over antiques." is not comparing apples to apples. The Criswell is a sword, and many Chitana are swords, but that is where any discussion starts and ends. Until you have experienced cutting from the scabbard and understand the fine points of doing so, it is pointless to discuss....if you have no interest in cutting from the scabbard, that is fine too.....but you cannot effectively cut from the scabbard with a current(or past) Criswell katana sword-thingie.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Kohai999 said:
I handled a Criswell last year at The Gathering. There is a SIGNIFICANT(improvement) difference in the weight, balance and edge geometry of his current swords to ones in the past. I had one of the old ones, and it handled like a pig and wouldn't cut wara for anything, and someone else was happy to give me more than I paid for it, so I sold it.

.....now it still doesn't have the best balance and lacks a habaki....so your statement about "It's not traditional but it cuts like a monster and I'd take it over any Chitana. I'd almost always have modern materials and techniques over antiques." is not comparing apples to apples. The Criswell is a sword, and many Chitana are swords, but that is where any discussion starts and ends. Until you have experienced cutting from the scabbard and understand the fine points of doing so, it is pointless to discuss....if you have no interest in cutting from the scabbard, that is fine too.....but you cannot effectively cut from the scabbard with a current(or past) Criswell katana sword-thingie.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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Yeah that's not my thing. I have a totally different place in my world for swords than traditional cutting arts. Personally I see a habaki as a weak point in a sword design. I'm sure it adds function for cutting arts and so is necessary for that. And I can appreciate that for the end user. But I'm not fond of a little piece of copper or brass being the thing keeping my mounts together. That's just me though. Being fairly good at sharpening I've managed to rework the edge on a few of my older (More pig like) Criswells and tune them up for some some really impressive cutting. But I agree... his later stuff got a lot more fluid.
 
I have, of all things, a Jubei lion dog in 1060, which was $94. It's not badly done, and for what I do with it it works fine (i had a very nice LL tsunami, but it's too big and too expensive for the little I do with it.) i suspect most of the Chinese heat treatin is done in salt baths or the equivalent-so it may not be as hard as a Nihonto, but the Jubei seems supple enough. The fittings are nice (real wood tsuka, cast steel fittings, real samé) I'm not gonna fight with it, but it's a nice sword.
Incidentally the feel is much like a slightly tired 16th-17th century sword, which is kinda cool.
 
Infi-del said:
Yeah that's not my thing. I have a totally different place in my world for swords than traditional cutting arts. Personally I see a habaki as a weak point in a sword design. I'm sure it adds function for cutting arts and so is necessary for that. And I can appreciate that for the end user. But I'm not fond of a little piece of copper or brass being the thing keeping my mounts together. That's just me though. Being fairly good at sharpening I've managed to rework the edge on a few of my older (More pig like) Criswells and tune them up for some some really impressive cutting. But I agree... his later stuff got a lot more fluid.
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Habaki are frikkin genius man.

It is a shock absorber...not sure if you mountain bike, but shocks in the bike mean that you can ride harder and make WAY more sick descensions than otherwise possible....it's pretty much the same thing with nihonto.....they are SO far ahead of their time.

That little piece of (preferably) copper, keeps the blade from riding on the scabbard....it keeps carbon steel from developing a contact point that rusts, and keeps a smooth point on the spine so you can fast draw, and not bind...and cut fast.....and that is an awsome thing, to the point that serious practitioners are fitting magnetic contacts to the scabbard to test draw speed....it's cool and revolutionary and if you cannot get it....there is nothing to say.....it is on you and not on us....you are missing out. It is practically impossible to fast draw a sword longer than 30" unless you have ape arms and a different way of slinging the scabbard.....this puts a lot of European swords at a distinctly different place.

jprime84 said:
How have I lived to this point and NOT owned a katana?
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Maybe you don't dig on swords?

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
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Here's a vid of an Aussie bloke absolutely punishing another one of these Chinese made Ebay blades. His is a springy 9260 steel Katana Blade. He only bought the blade and fixed it to a crudely made handle he knocked up himself just to test the blade to breaking point. The end results are pretty staggering considering he payed $60 for it. The bloke in the video is a bit reckless imo for putting himself in harms way to test a Kat blade, but the overall results are none the less impressive.

These Chinese Ebay sellers are rapidly earning my respect and trust. These swords seem to be every bit as good as a Hanwei, ColdSteel or Cheness Katana that cost hundreds of dollars more. In fact i bought a Ninjato from there which should arrive tomorrow. i'll post pics and my honest opinion.

[video=youtube;gC952ICHw1Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC952ICHw1Q[/video]
 
I ordered a Chinese made blade a few weeks ago. I wanted some particular items built into it and the maker agreed to forge the blade special to my design specs. It is still in production but when complete and received I'll post some thoughts on the blade. I was impressed with how much they worked with me on my requests and the price does not reflect a custom created sword. It is designed as a show and reference item and I don't plan on doing any heavy cutting with it. I certainly don't plan on doing what that guy did in the video above. I know that I could have designed the blade to be more durable, but wanted some of the specific design elements to approximate a style of historical blade that I've always been impressed with. Once here, I'm going to verify the harmon is real and I'm going to see if I can get my local steel re-claimer to do a quick test on the blade (tang actually) to verify the steel. If all is as advertised, this is going to be an amazing deal.
 
The irony of Chinese manufacturers making mass copies of Japanese swords never fails to blow my mind. I want to see more fine dao and jian out there!
 
I think that just speaks more about the insane popularity of the Katana Mecha. The Chinese, just like everyone else, will mass produce whatever sells best. I agree with you though, it is very ironic that China has a vast history of designing some amazing sword yet it is indeed hard to find more than a few decent modern day examples of any of them. The best Dadao reproduction i have found is actually dirt cheap and is made by a company called condor. It's pretty basic to look at, but everyone i know who has one of these absolutely loves them.

http://www.bronzemoonoutdoors.co.uk/condor-dynasty-dadao-sword

Here's a pretty decent review of it by Skallagrim:

[video=youtube;0VAE1vHqsxE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VAE1vHqsxE[/video]
 
The through-hardened Ronin Dojo Pro models seem to have a very good reputation among people who do a lot of tameshigiri on medium to heavy targets. They seem to be able to withstand a lot of abuse based on what I've seen in videos, even if your technique is awful like mine. Ask me how many times I've had to straighten my Practical Plus XL because I screwed up.....:(

BlakeK said:
I'm rather new to the sword collecting hobby. One thing i've found is that some of the older collectors can be a bit "Snobbish" in believing nothing but the finest Albion swords or genuine Tamahagane Katanas are worthy of discussion, let alone purchase.

A few weeks back i bought a Ronin Katana Dojo Pro series heavy Cutter. I'd been well informed by pretty much everybody that it was possibly the best functional Katana in it's price range before you start spending big money on serious pieces. I agree, it's a great sword at a very affordable price... But then i got to thinking, is it possible to find another sword that can match it in durability, edge retention and price?
Click to expand...
 
I just ordered a ronin entry level.

I think it'll be good for practice (other than bokken and iaido).

Once I figure I like swinging these, perhaps llater I can get the quality ones.
 
I've always been a poor-boy practitioner and bought everything starting from the Hanwei Practical up to nihonto. As long as you keep upgrading and appreciating the difference in quality, workmanship, and performance, I see no problem with starting cheap.
 
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