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Some nice stuff showing up.
Check out THIS carry combo baby!! PIX!
- Thread starter MauiRob
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- Mar 28, 2002
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"I'm mostly kidding too. I just thought I'd remind admirers of semi auto handguns not many rounds have sufficient energy to dump a bruin."
Okie, then what rounds work? .41AE? .45ACP? .50AE?
In case you're wondering, I'm a gun-bunny, but I have been living and moving back and forth between Singapore (which carries the death penalty by hanging for just *POSESSING* a firearm) and Australia (people still own firearms, but are quite heavily restricted; Semiauto Rifles are illegal and *ALL* shotgus have to be reduced to a capacity of 2 shots)...
Okie, then what rounds work? .41AE? .45ACP? .50AE?
In case you're wondering, I'm a gun-bunny, but I have been living and moving back and forth between Singapore (which carries the death penalty by hanging for just *POSESSING* a firearm) and Australia (people still own firearms, but are quite heavily restricted; Semiauto Rifles are illegal and *ALL* shotgus have to be reduced to a capacity of 2 shots)...
The .50 has the energy to kill a bear, especially a black bear. But we were discussing mountain grizzlies. Properly loaded, with the correct kind of hard cast bullet or custom bullet, the 50 has a chance against a grizzly. It would not be my choice. (on the other hand,at least one gun writer, Layne Simpson, once opined for defense he felt 8 rounds from the 5O AE A-OK. Nothing short of a 375 H&H would be my choice if the bear was aroused and angry. At rest is a different story. The caveat was repeating handguns. A JDJ? SSK handcannon in one of his proprietary cartridges would do OK, as would many production single shots handguns chambered for rifle rounds. The casul wouldn't be bad. Frankly, i'd rather not. As for .41AE and .45ACP, in any loading, if the 44 is marginal, these are dismal.
The problem with the 50 AE is weight. Many feel you might as well carry a carbine as all that. Nice gun though.
munk, two cents worth
PS, they say you'll only get one hurried blurred shot at a raging locomotive griz if attacked. A good thing might be to empty the handgun in the direction of anything you can hit in the blurred mass, and hope this earns you enough time to brain his skull open with an 18' AK Khukuri. you could always slit your throat.
The problem with the 50 AE is weight. Many feel you might as well carry a carbine as all that. Nice gun though.
munk, two cents worth
PS, they say you'll only get one hurried blurred shot at a raging locomotive griz if attacked. A good thing might be to empty the handgun in the direction of anything you can hit in the blurred mass, and hope this earns you enough time to brain his skull open with an 18' AK Khukuri. you could always slit your throat.
not2sharp
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The only thing that gets more hype than the latest steel is the latest handgun round. The 45 may be old and plain but it creates a big hole. You would probably be o.k. against anything less than a Kodiak bear. It is just not a very humane calibur to hunt with.
With animals you never know. I once hit a ~180lb deer a little low with a 180gr. 30-06 and opened up it's thorax from it's neck to it's tail. It made it about 125 yards uphill without most of it's internal organs. It was still running with a completely empty chest and abdomen. If you get the wrong bear it doesn't really matter what you shot it with. You are still going to be bear food.
n2s
With animals you never know. I once hit a ~180lb deer a little low with a 180gr. 30-06 and opened up it's thorax from it's neck to it's tail. It made it about 125 yards uphill without most of it's internal organs. It was still running with a completely empty chest and abdomen. If you get the wrong bear it doesn't really matter what you shot it with. You are still going to be bear food.
n2s
The only thing that gets more hype than the latest steel is the latest handgun round. The 45 may be old and plain but it creates a big hole. You would probably be o.k. against anything less than a Kodiak bear. It is just not a very humane calibur to hunt with>> not2sharp
I'm sorry. I respectfully disagree in the strongest terms. without pulling out many ballistic sources, I can tell you the 300-plus foot pounds of energy generated by the 45 acp woefully inadequate for a mountain grizzly. It really doesn't matter if you increase the foot pound with plus p, the 230 gr projectile will not cut it, lacking the sectional density, bullet construction, and weight to penetrate the vitals of such a powerfully muscled and boned beast. The only difference between the coastal and the mountain is size due to diet. The acp will bounce off or lodge superficially. If you doubt this, read the manufacturer's loading recomdations about the 230 gr bullet in the 45 cal. Any 45 cal. including the Casul.
I often use a plus plus p loading in the 45 colt which has better bullets available to it, (tougher ones) and better sectional densities. I wouldn't think of shooting a griz with it, even loaded with a 300 gr hard cast or barnes or hornady's best. And I'm up to a thousand ft pounds of energy. I would defend myself with it- and pray.
I do agree about one thing; with all the hype, after 90 plus years, they have not really improved upon the .45acp as a general purpose self defense round. It is the only semi auto handgun I own.
seriously, ask around. Don't take my word for this. I can't tell you how many days, months and years I poured over ballistic data and cartridge developement. I was as imersed in that the way most of you are knowledgable about knives, which I know very little about.
munk
I'm sorry. I respectfully disagree in the strongest terms. without pulling out many ballistic sources, I can tell you the 300-plus foot pounds of energy generated by the 45 acp woefully inadequate for a mountain grizzly. It really doesn't matter if you increase the foot pound with plus p, the 230 gr projectile will not cut it, lacking the sectional density, bullet construction, and weight to penetrate the vitals of such a powerfully muscled and boned beast. The only difference between the coastal and the mountain is size due to diet. The acp will bounce off or lodge superficially. If you doubt this, read the manufacturer's loading recomdations about the 230 gr bullet in the 45 cal. Any 45 cal. including the Casul.
I often use a plus plus p loading in the 45 colt which has better bullets available to it, (tougher ones) and better sectional densities. I wouldn't think of shooting a griz with it, even loaded with a 300 gr hard cast or barnes or hornady's best. And I'm up to a thousand ft pounds of energy. I would defend myself with it- and pray.
I do agree about one thing; with all the hype, after 90 plus years, they have not really improved upon the .45acp as a general purpose self defense round. It is the only semi auto handgun I own.
seriously, ask around. Don't take my word for this. I can't tell you how many days, months and years I poured over ballistic data and cartridge developement. I was as imersed in that the way most of you are knowledgable about knives, which I know very little about.
munk
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I think the best medicine for a charging griz is a slow partner or a lame dog
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Big Mac?!?!?
Maybe for park bears, but the wild ones have taste! And I sure hope I taste better than a Big Mac.
Maybe for park bears, but the wild ones have taste! And I sure hope I taste better than a Big Mac.
Maybe for park bears, but the wild ones have taste! And I sure hope I taste better than a Big Mac.>>>
Are you sure? Course, would a bear care? No. But the large cats apparently do not find us high on the list of treats. "maneaters' are almost always because of injury to the cat. Unless you're in California, where cougars have developed a taste for the voters who banned the hunting of cougars. Now that's good taste.
munk
Are you sure? Course, would a bear care? No. But the large cats apparently do not find us high on the list of treats. "maneaters' are almost always because of injury to the cat. Unless you're in California, where cougars have developed a taste for the voters who banned the hunting of cougars. Now that's good taste.
munk
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Well, I think I'm a heckuva lot meatier than a Big Mac. But, then, I suppose bears are omnivorous. It probably comes down to whether it likes the special sauce or not.
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You've probably heard the story about the guy who was doing hand to hand with the grizzly -- grabbed the bear by his private parts and squeezed like hell. Bear let go and the man ran down the hill, looked back and the bear was waving for him to return.
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Originally posted by Tohatchi NM
I think the best medicine for a charging griz is a slow partner or a lame dog
C4 would do quite nicely. But since Uncle Sam disapproves of his nieces and nephews playing with high explosives, a quick khuk chop to your partner's leg should give you a few minutes head start.
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Originally posted by Semper Fi
C4 would do quite nicely. But since Uncle Sam disapproves of his nieces and nephews playing with high explosives, a quick khuk chop to your partner's leg should give you a few minutes head start.
Why do divers always carry a BIG knife and dive in pairs?
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Hmm, all this bear wrestling stuff reminds me of this famous John West ad:
http://www.pocketmovies.net/detail_91.html
Enjoy,
-Emile
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Some much needed funny stuff and thanks.