Chinese Knife Companies

I'm not sure how many of these have been mentioned but here is a quick list of chinese companies I know about:

Low end, but good quality:
Enlan
Inron
Bee
Sanrenmu
Harnds
Navy
Ganzo
twosun

High(er) end:
Kizer
Reate
Carson Tech Labs
Stedemon
Proelia

Clones:
Kevin John (high end, also has the original venom and venom 2)
Wild Boar (low end)
A DAI (High end, also make some non-clones)
 
Stays Sharp said:
Playing by their own rules really gives them a huge advantage. In knives and everything else.

I disagree with the notion that western knife companies "have nothing to worry about". Not because they are better, but they will surely take slices out of the sales pie that is already highly competitive. The worst thing to do is to be arrogant about it. We've been doing that for decades with the Chinese and we now owe them billions and everything in my house is made there.
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The reason everything in your house is made in China is because it is dramatically cheaper to produce in China than anywhere else + they manufacture high quality products (in terms of manufacturing consistency). This enabled companies in the west to offer the same quality goods at dramatically lower costs and increase their own profits in the process.

But buying and selling knives is not like buying and selling coffee makers. This is a design and innovation driven industry (not something the Chinese are particularly good at). And unlike the U.S. auto makers in the 1960s+70s western knife makers are hardly arrogant or complacent. They are pushing the envelope. Why? Maybe because they are (for the most part) family run businesses in it for their love of knives, the craft of making knives, and pleasing their loyal customers more than just the money$ - like the Chinese or big corporations.

And, as someone already mentioned pride in ownership is an important reason people buy knives.. how can you be proud of owning a product when you have no idea who is making the product or the story behind it?
 
pawnable said:
The reason everything in your house is made in China is because it is dramatically cheaper to produce in China than anywhere else + they manufacture high quality products (in terms of manufacturing consistency). This enabled companies in the west to offer the same quality goods at dramatically lower costs and increase their own profits in the process.

But buying and selling knives is not like buying and selling coffee makers. This is a design and innovation driven industry (not something the Chinese are particularly good at). And unlike the U.S. auto makers in the 1960s+70s western knife makers are hardly arrogant or complacent. They are pushing the envelope. Why? Maybe because they are (for the most part) family run businesses in it for their love of knives, the craft of making knives, and pleasing their loyal customers more than just the money$ - like the Chinese or big corporations.

And, as someone already mentioned pride in ownership is an important reason people buy knives.. how can you be proud of owning a product when you have no idea who is making the product or the story behind it?
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Pride in ownership and "knowing" the why and story behind knives is the main reason why I do not own any of the premium China knives. Agreed. Not everyone is like that though.

I wasn't clear on the arrogance part. I did not infer that US makers were being arrogant and like you said: they are not... Should stay that way. You said that "US makers really have nothing to worry about" vs these Chinese makers who can produce a quality product free from western patent/copyright laws etc etc. They make knives on all levels from $2 gas station knives on up. It is competition. More of a warning that it should be taken seriously as China has demonstrated what they can do to entire market segments.

More than not though we are on the same page.
 
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I will definitely be picking up a Stedemon Shy as soon as it's in the budget, absolutely love the design of it. When you compare it to the price of the Lionsteel SR-1A, it definitely is a little high (the increased steel quality doesn't balance out the difference in labor costs), but I like the design too much to let that get in the way.

The new Stedemon DSM, however, is getting the pass from me unless it drops in price substantially. $280 for a framelock without a steel insert (something I love about Chinese knives is they all seem to integrate them) is just too much for me.
 
Misanthropia said:
I will definitely be picking up a Stedemon Shy as soon as it's in the budget, absolutely love the design of it. When you compare it to the price of the Lionsteel SR-1A, it definitely is a little high (the increased steel quality doesn't balance out the difference in labor costs), but I like the design too much to let that get in the way.
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I think in time I'll pick up one of the Stedemon SHY models as well mostly due to the solid/integral frame and blade shape. The price should be more like $200 tops not $240.

Misanthropia said:
The new Stedemon DSM, however, is getting the pass from me unless it drops in price substantially. $280 for a framelock without a steel insert (something I love about Chinese knives is they all seem to integrate them) is just too much for me.
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Both the Stedemon DSM and Bastion are also overpriced and even more so than SHY!

Stedemon Bastion and SHY have steel lock bar inserts but DSM does not.

By the way, Kizer still does not have steel lock bar inserts!
 
RamZar said:
By the way, Kizer still does not have steel lock bar inserts!
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There are still plenty of us out there that neither need nor care at all about steel lock bar inserts. I've yet to find a single person who has actually worn out a regular titanium frame lock.
 
brancron said:
There are still plenty of us out there that neither need nor care at all about steel lock bar inserts. I've yet to find a single person who has actually worn out a regular titanium frame lock.
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It's not just for wear but also lock stickiness. Of course, there are other solutions like hardening the titanium contact point.
 
RamZar said:
It's not just for wear but also lock stickiness. Of course, there are other solutions like hardening the titanium contact point.
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Luckily I've never had a Kizer that had lock stick, they're extremely well made. Lock stick can be a problem though, you're right, so I'll give steel inserts credit for fixing that problem.
 
brancron said:
There are still plenty of us out there that neither need nor care at all about steel lock bar inserts. I've yet to find a single person who has actually worn out a regular titanium frame lock.
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I own a Spyderco Chokwe that I bought new back in the days. Granted the titanium was not treated at all back in those days, the lock bar traveled from 25% to 75% within a short time period when I was carrying the knife. It was moving at such an alarming rate that I had to take the knife apart and heat treat the lock face in order to slow it down. I have a few other titanium frame locks that were extremely sticky that would have benefited from a steel insert. I do believe that when done right, the titanium lock can last a long time without any issues, but there is a potential for issues to develop that could have been prevented.
 
brancron said:
There are still plenty of us out there that neither need nor care at all about steel lock bar inserts. I've yet to find a single person who has actually worn out a regular titanium frame lock.
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The only reason I care about them on Chinese made knives is that I tend to view these knives as not having a warranty, so years (decades even) later when titanium on steel contact would start wearing, you'll be out of luck entirely. It's one of the risks of buying knives from these new, faceless start ups. Ceramic detents and steel lock inserts extend the lifetime of the knife, which I value when there's no way to have it serviced.

Also, I'm not sure if this is just an artifact of my own observations and experience, but I have had way more lock issues (lock rock) with titanium on steel contact then with a lockbar insert. I don't know if adding a lockbar insert somehow makes getting the geometry easier or allows for more flexibility in the tolerances, but of the 15 or so knives with inserts I've owned, zero have developed any kind of lock rock.
 
Since my two Kizer 3404 titanium frame lock flippers in early 2014 Kizer has addressed two of three "issues": using bearings instead of washers in some of the latest flipper models and using torx pivot screws instead of proprietary. The last "issue" would be the steel lock bar insert.
 
pawnable said:
The reason everything in your house is made in China is because it is dramatically cheaper to produce in China than anywhere else + they manufacture high quality products (in terms of manufacturing consistency). This enabled companies in the west to offer the same quality goods at dramatically lower costs and increase their own profits in the process.

But buying and selling knives is not like buying and selling coffee makers. This is a design and innovation driven industry (not something the Chinese are particularly good at). And unlike the U.S. auto makers in the 1960s+70s western knife makers are hardly arrogant or complacent. They are pushing the envelope. Why? Maybe because they are (for the most part) family run businesses in it for their love of knives, the craft of making knives, and pleasing their loyal customers more than just the money$ - like the Chinese or big corporations.

And, as someone already mentioned pride in ownership is an important reason people buy knives.. how can you be proud of owning a product when you have no idea who is making the product or the story behind it?
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Well honestly i believe pride of ownership is in the quality of the product not the entity behind making it. And since we are talking production knives here no one really knows the people making their knives. You know the parent company. I can have just as much pride in a knife made on a cnc in china and assembled by someone with the last name chen as i do a knife made on a cnc in the states and assembled by someone with the last name jones. I look at quality and value, and i pay little attention to what border it may hail from. We are all human with the same potential.
 
Blues Bender said:
Yea, I didn't really want to promote that place...
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I understand that but its like $70 difference. i know im going to hell. But at least I have the cheapest ticket for the ride down, lol. Who knows that store in russia may get them from the same place.
 
As far as I am concerned the price difference is not enough that I would purchase a Chinese product over an American made one. If we started seeing Ti framelocks with a high-end steel and decent fit/finish for say $75-100, then maybe. But at prices like Reate and Stedemon are asking for their knives, I can think of some US made offerings that match or exceed their quality and features for the same price.
 
asdf12345 said:
As far as I am concerned the price difference is not enough that I would purchase a Chinese product over an American made one. If we started seeing Ti framelocks with a high-end steel and decent fit/finish for say $75-100, then maybe. But at prices like Reate and Stedemon are asking for their knives, I can think of some US made offerings that match or exceed their quality and features for the same price.
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Schrade has some Ti frame locks with D2 blades that are in that price range and are very good knives.
 
asdf12345 said:
As far as I am concerned the price difference is not enough that I would purchase a Chinese product over an American made one. If we started seeing Ti framelocks with a high-end steel and decent fit/finish for say $75-100, then maybe. But at prices like Reate and Stedemon are asking for their knives, I can think of some US made offerings that match or exceed their quality and features for the same price.
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Your point of view is from the point of view of a consumer that looks at China as nothing more than a labor force, but yet expect them come up with products that can exceed the products that have had extensive R&D and promotional backing of well established manufacturers. I believe that the price of materials like Ti, cf, and premium steel is not much different no matter where you live so unless someone is lying about what the material is, the price should be pretty consistent. I can also understand that having a ZT, Spyderco, Benchmade, or whatever made in the USA badge on a product is always more desirable than something that indicates "Made in China". The only issue is that if China is expected to make a low price product, can the USA met the expectation of the people by making a flawless product?
 
asdf12345 said:
As far as I am concerned the price difference is not enough that I would purchase a Chinese product over an American made one. If we started seeing Ti framelocks with a high-end steel and decent fit/finish for say $75-100, then maybe. But at prices like Reate and Stedemon are asking for their knives, I can think of some US made offerings that match or exceed their quality and features for the same price.
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Now that I agree with. Even though I can fully get behind a knife made in china it should still represent value. If the price is the same as well as the materials and execution I would support USA all the way. My main draw to buying chinese is to save money. If I am no longer getting that value then there is no more incentives to buying overseas manufactured products for me.

Jasonsdman said:
Your point of view is from the point of view of a consumer that looks at China as nothing more than a labor force, but yet expect them come up with products that can exceed the products that have had extensive R&D and promotional backing of well established manufacturers. I believe that the price of materials like Ti, cf, and premium steel is not much different no matter where you live so unless someone is lying about what the material is, the price should be pretty consistent. I can also understand that having a ZT, Spyderco, Benchmade, or whatever made in the USA badge on a product is always more desirable than something that indicates "Made in China". The only issue is that if China is expected to make a low price product, can the USA met the expectation of the people by making a flawless product?
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Not sure I agree. It seems you are assuming that chinese companies are sourcing all its materials from the same place as USA based manufacturers. I dont think this is the case. Also Its the cost of the labor and the operating costs of machinery that will effect the price. And we pay workers much more than in china and I believe electricity costs more here too but Im not positive. Either way its no secret that things can get done cheaper in china than the USA. Most of the components in chinese knives are sourced in china and russia. The only USA sourced materials usually are the blade steel. Carbon fiber and titanium are not usually imported from the USA. Even though the carbon fiber i have in my chinese knives is the finest I have ever seen in a knife its also cheaper to produce in china. And titanium Is usually TC4 which is close to 6al4v but its a lower cost chinese equivalent. That is where I think things get complicated. What happens if the chinese knives surpass our quality? Then the argument about cost becomes more cloudy.
 
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