Civilian History

F

Frederick E Morton

Joined
Dec 31, 1998
Messages
45
Sal,

Would you please provide background info on the Civilian? Who was the original customer, mission requirements, etc... Most people go into shock when I show them my Civilian.

Thanks
 
Frederick - The Civilian was designed after a long conversarion with several DEA officers at a Show. The scenario was explained this way; "We have an officer working undercover in a Crack house. He can't carry a piece. He has no Martial combat skill. Please create a low profile defensive knife that he can use, if discovered, to get out of there alive". Spyderco makes a very limited production, sales are generally to law enforcement, knife nut collectors and civilians that have to work in questionable environments. eg; An elderly physician from Paris was working several months at a time setting up a clinic in Pakistan. He had to walk through a "bad" neighborhood each night going back to his room. The Civilian provided him with the confidence (and the tool) to help get him out of trouble if attacked.

It is a very efficient defensive cutting edge. Kept sharp and not used for anything except the possibility of self defense. It could save your life. It is probably not a good idea to show it around. The appearance alone of the Civilian sometimes makes people nervous.
sal
 
My experiments with the Civilian have shown it to be a very good ivy trimmer, and the most awkward and sloppy bagel slicer in my whole collection. Pretty good commercial mushroom harvesting tool, I'm told. The "Slim Reaper?"


------------------
- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com

 
Sal,

Regarding the history of the Civilian, It makes me wonder: You claim that the knife was designed to meet the requirments of a NON trained agent. This is completely in contridiction to what a lot of respected people say about it, for example James Keating in his amazing Civilian instructional Video emphasize the fact that it is a speciality piece that requires extra training and awareness, He even warns against one cutting itself with no proper tarining with this little SOB.

How do you explain this different attitudes between the maker/designer of the Civilian and The one who trains using it ?

AG
 
AG - The knife was designed with the non trained person in mind. James is cerainly well respected and knows what he is speaking about. I imagine it would be easier to cut one-self with the Civilian more easily than a more conventional design if one were not paying attention. Certainly James has come up with far more uses for this defensive tool, than was thought of in the original design. This is because of his greater knowledge and skill in this area. Careful training would probably not be a bad idea with reference to this model, but the original intension for the shape was just slash anyhthing that comes near you and hold on to the piece. The shape of the blade would do the rest.
sal
 
Mr Glesser,

Do you have any plan on making your Civilian more affordable by using Zytel handles? I sure hope so!
 
Hi,

Thank yo Sal for your reply.
I have read somewhere that during 1999 Spyderco plans to replace the the Aluminum Civilians (Japanese made) with the G10 model (USA made) - Does this mean that the Aluminum version is about to be discontinued this year completely ???

 
Handling the Civie in person is an entirely different experience than seeing it in a photograph. I do believe this was the only time a knife in my own hand sent shivers down my spine.

Out of whose wicked, wicked mind did it spawn? Yes, indeed you should immediately rename this knife "Hell Spawn." When I first heard the name Civilian, I thought it was one of your cute Ladybug type knives for opening letters. This has to the most misleading name for a knife ever.

[This message has been edited by tallwingedgoat (edited 31 January 1999).]
 
A better name?

Call it the Slim Reaper.

That is what that blade shape is traditionally used for. Sickle. Pruning hook.

"But officer! I only carry it to harvest my wild oats!"


------------------
- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com

 
Tallwingedgoat - my apologies for the apparent deception. Sometimes trying to stay "cool" has more than one meaning. We didn't want this model to get too much attention. It is not our "style" to present this type of image. Just the right amount from professional parties.

Titan - Yes, but not in the US. Current legislation and attitude towards this type of knife is not positive. We would not want the grief that would accompany flooding the market (affordable) with this model at this time. Sorry. There is an "Endura" sized Civilian called the "Matriarch" scheduled for South African Exclusive at this time. It might be available in some of those countries not involved in "Knife fear mania". We will proceed conservatively on this one.
sal
 
Hi Sal,

Please answer my above question regarding the Alum version, discontinued ????

 
Grumble. Bowing down to non-existant regulations again..

IMHO, the civilian garners a bad reputation because of the lack of marketing. It would make a great pruning knife, as Mr. Mattis said, and probably work well as a boat/rescue type knife. Hiding it in the closet like the bad evil twin just makes people more wary of it because they don't know why you are hiding it, but because you are, there must be something wrong. There are many other hawk bladed designs out there, and it only seems natural that Spydie has one too. A zytel handled version would be nice for my toolbox to cut hoses & such.
 
Somewhere in this or some other thread around here, somebody asked for a picture of the Civilian. Here's mine:

spy-civilian-slightlyused.jpg


The tip as lost its needle point, from when the little old lady I loaned it to used it trim some woody stuff in her garden. A Merlin would probably be better for her purposes.

And I want one of those Matriarchs in my collection! It's clearly a gardening knife! Isn't it?
wink.gif


- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com


[This message has been edited by James Mattis (edited 31 January 1999).]
 
AG - We have not yet decided what to do with the aluminum version. There are many that prefer it to the G10.? We'll let you know when we know. Currently, the Aluminum model is still being produced in limited quantities.

Yekim - In reality, the Civilian is "not just another hawkbill". Arguments for possible uses are "not in accordance with reality or truth". The Civilian really isn't good for gardening or pruning or any other "Gee, officer, I only....". It is really only good for what it was designed to do. A Merlin or Harpy is much thicker at the tip for the more difficult cutting chores of pruning or cutting line or rope. Safety is best done with a sheepfoot. Just my honest opinion.

I carry a Civilian when in "potentially dangerous" environments. Laws are not a consideration, safety is. If possession becomes a problem. I did so knowingly and will deal with that problem. I am not advocating that you break a law, just sharing a personal view. Try not to think of it as a bad/evil twin, so much as a sharp fire extinguisher. In modern times, "weapons" scare many people, for whatever reasons. As a reponsible American company, we have to be aware of that fact.

However, if you feel that current or future laws need refinement, help us (AKTI) with suggstions (and $) and maybe together we can affect a change? The future of humankind lies in cooperation.
sal

 
Sal,

Please let this forum know when the "Matriarch" is due on the SA market. I promise not too flood the US market with too many imports
smile.gif
.

Muchas Gracias,

Michael
 
Sal, thanks for reply BUT...that's UNFAIR! Why only South Africa? How about here in the Philippines? How can a non-US resident order your "Matriarch"?
 
Sal,

Please let us know if a window of opportunity opens up for the Matriarch's availability in the U.S.(no overseas hassels) no matter how strange or obscure the channels might be. Perhaps use us forum members as a safe U.S. test group? Yes, I'm stretching it, but I gotta try.
If it's not revealing too much, could you tell us the specs on materials and such? I read your post as kind of verifying Titan's question about Zytel handles, if so, reversible pocket clip '98 Endura style? VG-10 or 440V blade?

Thanks,
Ken

[This message has been edited by KenN (edited 01 February 1999).]
 
Rather controversial subject, it seems. There are currently no plain edge Civilians being produced. '98 Endura handle with reversible clip. ATS-55 serrated blade. Philipines might be OK. 'pends on their current knife attitude. We're not trying to be unfair, just trying to be socially responsible. We work a great deal with law enforcement and governments. Why don't we pick this thread up again after he model begins production. You're saying collectors are OK. No argument. Have to think on possible solutions that work all the way around. At least 4 months before delivery is possible. Some thinking time? Suggestions?
sal
 
South Africa may be a special case, as far as the legal system being friendly toward self defense with deadly force in the gravest extreme. On public radio, a few weeks back, I heard a report on an anti-carjacking system that's being sold there openly and legally. When activated, it sprays gas around the perimeter of the car, and electronically ignites it. FOOM! Lightly toasted carjacker!

The literature that comes with the Civilian says that it is a particularly defensive edged weapon, since, unlike a straight dagger or a French chef's knife, it is not particulary good for deliberately killing somebody, but very good at damaging whatever limb is coming at you to harm you. And self-defense in the gravest extreme is a life-sustaining purpose. Explaining that is easier with some people than others.

Perhaps one approach for the Matriarch (would an oversize vorpal folder be a Patriarch?) in the US market, consistent with social responsibility, would be to make it available to AKTI members only, on the assumption that identifiable people who are activists on a public affairs issue might be less likely to include an irresponsible party or two than random cash customers at a flea market.

(Not that the irresponsible party will have any trouble getting a sharp object with which to do willful damage, regardless of manufacturers' or legislatures' policies!)

Whether it is the Matriarch or some other model, maybe AKTI-participating companies could come up with special editions, with the AKTI logo, marketed and priced to support the organization.


------------------
- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com

 
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