Cold Steel Sword... shockingly low hardness

M

MatthewMachinist

Joined
Jul 25, 2013
Messages
2
Hi Guys,

I have been a sword fan for decades and I have been thinking about getting a cold steel sword. I couldn't find data on their site about the Rockwell hardness of their blades. Now I am a Infantry Saber fan so my understanding is that blades in this category can vary in hardness a bit, but they should basically be spring tempered, lets say 45 to 50 HRC. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Anyway the answer I got from "cold steel" is very surprising for a few reasons...
"
Hello,
Thank you for contacting GSM Outdoors!
The Thompson, 1796, and 1830 sabers have a Rockwell C hardness of approximately 13.
If you have further questions, please call 877-269-8490 at your earliest convenience. We are available Monday through Friday from 8 AM to 5 PM CST.
Have a wonderful day!
Kind Regards,
Customer Service"

Ok so the first surprise is that I prefer to do business with companies that have their own in house customer support and tech. The answer has come from a parent company! That's not a good start in my book.
Then we have the Rockwell hardness of 13, at first I thought this is an impossible number, however the hardness of normalized or annealed medium carbon steel is normally measured Rockwell B around 90 which would be around 11 on the C scale. So basically these swords are dead soft? This is a major surprise because I didn't think Cold Steel blades were wall hangers.
Lastly... the customer service person didn't even give a name, which might not be a problem for most people but they are pretty much ticking all of my red flag boxes.

So I haven't been active on sword forums for a few years... is it common knowledge that these blades are soft?

Thanks,
Matt.
 
Is Windlass still making the cold steel swords? It might pay to check with them.

GSM knows nothing about knives or swords. They are just trying to trade on what had been Cold Steel’s reputation, and they would sell you an inflatable sword if they thought they could get away with it.

n2s
 
For what it's worth, I picked up a CS Cinquedea earlier this year, and it seems to be hardened correctly. It's on the small side for a Cinquedea, making it more of a large dagger than short sword, so it's a bit more difficult to spot tempering issues without possibly destructive testing I don't plan to do. I also lucked out on the fit and finish in that the blade is sharp and has even grinds, and that seems to be getting rarer and rarer as GSM continues to drop ship from India. Windlass does decent work, but their QA leaves something to be desired judging by the increase in unhappy reviews on various merchant sites. If they'll ship with bad grinds or rust, they'll ship with bad heat treat, and it's quite obvious GSM doesn't open the boxes before it sends them to the buyer.
 
Wikipedia says HRC readings below 20 are unreliable, and that HRB and HRC overlap, so I'd conclude that if it were actually that soft, you'd want to use the HRB scale. Also found this:

wfe.jpg
From http://myarmoury.com/feature_bladehardness.html

There's just no way. GSM, or at least the rep responding to you, doesn't know what the hell they're talking about. Apparently anything that soft you wouldn't use HRC as a scale, and any result of 13 wouldn't be considered a reliable/accurate if you did. This is homogeneous modern steel, not some junk from 1000 years ago.
 
I would be shocked if it was really that soft. That said, I wouldn’t buy another cold steel sword. The quality wasn’t there 15 years ago I doubt it has improved.
 
I bought a cold steel sword around 5 or 6 years back and was rather disappointed it was one of the wakizashi the HT was good but the weight and fit and finish left something to be desired the blade was also rather thick and just did not cut well.

some people like the company and there products but for 50 to 70 dollars more I could of had a good quality chinatana/chinese katana that would have been far better in comparison.
 
Evan Wilson said:
I bought a cold steel sword around 5 or 6 years back and was rather disappointed it was one of the wakizashi the HT was good but the weight and fit and finish left something to be desired the blade was also rather thick and just did not cut well.

some people like the company and there products but for 50 to 70 dollars more I could of had a good quality chinatana/chinese katana that would have been far better in comparison.
Click to expand...
Swords were always a secondary line for them. Cold Steels popularity originated with the Carbon V line of knives made for them by Camillus and the Japanese Seki products.

n2s
 
not2sharp said:
Swords were always a secondary line for them. Cold Steels popularity originated with the Carbon V line of knives made for them by Camillus and the Japanese Seki products.

n2s
Click to expand...
unfortunately I had not known that at the time,there is also the question of if you paid a knife/sword smith to make you a sword you would expect something usable at the very least a fair weight reasonable balance and good for cutting and it did not live up to the bare minimum of what is acceptable would you still say "Swords were always a secondary line for them." when it sounds like an excuse for below average craftsmanship?
I found that I could not even cut through cardboard without tearing it just would not cut well even after I got the edge sharp enuf to cut hair the blade was just too thick.
 
Cold Steel had a niche for swords, which was to make them ridiculously overbuilt. I picked up a Jian and a Ba Gua Dao at a parking lot sale 20 years ago, and they are each at least a full pound heavier than what I would expect in a "real" blade. But they totally fit the "train heavy, fight light" saying. I would run forms with the CS Jian, and then a Paul Chen sharp Jian and I could barely feel the weight. If I was a young man again and wanted a semi-sharp blade that hit like a truck, I would get a CS. Or I would go to Scorpion Swords and Knives, his stuff is also really heavy but actually hard and sharp-- some cool patterns too.
 
Thanks for all the replies, I took not2sharps advice and contacted Windlass. Now the customer service person didn't give an explicit answer to the question as to whether they made the blades for cold steel. But they certainly didn't deny it. And the specs they gave were 1065 (note not 1055) and 48 to 52 HRC.

This makes a lot more sense to me.

But that being said... I am still hesitant to buy due to the problems I mentioned in my first message.
 
BitingSarcasm said:
I also lucked out on the fit and finish in that the blade is sharp and has even grinds, and that seems to be getting rarer and rarer as GSM continues to drop ship from India. Windlass does decent work, but their QA leaves something to be desired judging by the increase in unhappy reviews on various merchant sites. If they'll ship with bad grinds or rust, they'll ship with bad heat treat, and it's quite obvious GSM doesn't open the boxes before it sends them to the buyer.
Click to expand...
About a decade ago, I bought a Windlass Bowie as a gift for a friend. It looked very nice but was dull as a butter knife.

Took it to a local place for sharpening, yet it remained dull.

Then I contacted someone on this forum who offered sharpening services using the Wicked Sharp system. I'd sent knives to him before and he does excellent work. He told me he tried his best but the blade didn't seem to be heat treated at all and was very soft steel. It was sharp enough to cut into a roll of paper towels, but not very deeply.

Cannot recommend Windlass or any blades made in India or Pakistan. The typical mass produced novelty "knives" from China are better quality.
 
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