Cold steel vs CRKT suit and claims made by each

[bld522]

A folder can't replace a fixed blade, unless something more concealable like a folder is necessary. Though Tri-Ad and fixed blades do have one thing in common, the blade will definitely fail before the lock does.

Your statement contains a contradiction. Why bother carrying a fixed-blade at all if a folder can be made that's every bit as strong? Isn't blade strength the only real advantage a fixed-blade has over a folder? And wouldn't the convenience of carrying a folder always outweigh the bulkiness of carrying a fixed-blade if the fixed-blade offers no strength advantages? Seems to me the answer to that question is a no-brainer. Everybody should throw out their fixed-blades and replace them with Tri-Ad folders, right? But wait! I look at the Cold Steel catalog and what do I see? Fixed-blades. And then there's Andrew's statement that the Tri-Ad lock probably can't defeat a REAL fixed-blade.

I'm not sure the triad anything can beat a knife that is a "real fixed blade" as is the RAO.

So who's right . . . you or Andrew?

 

[Monofletch]

If you want a fixed blade....buy a fixed blade

I bought my F150 because I like the looks, feel, and the options offered.....not because the add said "Built FORD tough".

 

[bld522]

If you want a fixed blade....buy a fixed blade.

I agree. But that's not the point. Some people buy fixed-blades because they like fixed-blades. But some people, myself included, buy them because they perceive that fixed-blades possess a strength advantage over folders . . . an advantage Jon seems to want to obviate. Is Jon right or is Jon wrong? It appears as if Andrew himself isn't willing to crawl out on a limb quite as skinny as the one Jon is hanging from.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

Your statement contains a contradiction. Why bother carrying a fixed-blade at all if a folder can be made that's every bit as strong? Isn't blade strength the only real advantage a fixed-blade has over a folder? And wouldn't the convenience of carrying a folder always outweigh the bulkiness of carrying a fixed-blade if the fixed-blade offers no strength advantages? Seems to me the answer to that question is a no-brainer. Everybody should throw out their fixed-blades and replace them with Tri-Ad folders, right? But wait! I look at the Cold Steel catalog and what do I see? Fixed-blades. And then there's Andrew's statement that the Tri-Ad lock probably can't defeat a REAL fixed-blade.



So who's right . . . you or Andrew?

I think you're begging the question here. If we do assume the blade will fail first on each that immediately brings up the question, given blades as equivalent as possible, is the blade of a folder as strong as the blade of the fixed blade? I would argue that's pretty solidly a no as the folder has a big old pivot hole and has much, much less material to absorb shock.

I wouldn't go that far about the Triad lock without seeing a lot more testing, but taken alone the statement, "the blades will break first," cannot be automatically read as, "the folder is just as strong as the fixed blade."

 

[bld522]

It sure doesn't appear that Andrew is willing to make that claim. And I can't let loose of the picture in my mind that I can render any folder on the planet unusable with one well-placed strike from a $15 Bud-K Bowie. I doubt the reverse is true, however.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

It sure doesn't appear that Andrew is willing to make that claim. And I can't let loose of the picture in my mind that I can render any folder on the planet unusable with one well-placed strike from a $15 Bud-K Bowie. I doubt the reverse is true, however.

The claim is demonstrably wrong from the get go as many fixed blades fail somewhere in the tang rather than the blade. That said, I still argue that you're inflating his claim far beyond what it was. I don't necessarily think he's right, but I think it's important to argue against the claim he made, not the one he's been accused of.

 

[bld522]

The claim is demonstrably wrong from the get go as many fixed blades fail somewhere in the tang rather than the blade.

True, but I'd take my chances with the tang on a fixed-blade before I would the pivot on a folder.

I think it's important to argue against the claim he made, not the one he's been accused of.

I'd suggest we wait and see what Jon has to say when he gets here . . .

 

[Insipid Moniker]

True, but I'd take my chances with the tang on a fixed-blade before I would the pivot on a folder.

You and me both, friend!

 

[bld522]

Yep. And just to make my position clear, if folders have actually gotten to the point where fixed-blades possess no demonstrable advantage over them, then perhaps the time has come for me to sell all my fixed-blades and carry nothing but folders. There's certainly evidence out there that some folders are capable of absorbing enormous abuse without damage. So it's possible that the fixed-blade knife could be a dying breed. I'm just not prepared to stake my life on that proposition . . . at least not yet.

 

[Jonslaught]

I think you put too much weight on the word "replace" I used. Replace in the sense that where you would have taken the fixed blade, you have now replaced it with a folder, due to an outlying circumstance. Re.. place. The word in the literal sense, not philosophical. I said your post was like a gag question, so I gave a gag answer. Hence the "Joker face". Ya like to test those claims, don't ya.

Its like that Superman and Goku (Nerd Alert!) parable I mentioned earlier. The folder will and has gained in strength over the years, its like Goku training to shatter limits to get stronger. Where as the fixed, like Superman, is what it is. You can give both the same exact unbreakable steel, but the folder will never be as strong because only it has the limit to give -- the fold.

It would make a pretty good political cartoon: A folder and a fixed blade at a casino table playing cards. The fixed blade with a confident smirk on its face goes all in, while the folder is sweating with teeth clattering.

 

[bld522]

Well you wouldn't be the first to make the claim that fixed-blades are, for all intents and purposes, obsolete now that folders can be made strong enough that elephants can be hung from their blades. Still, a couple of questions remain. If folders exist that have near fixed-blade strength, why bother carrying fixed-blades at all? And if you're going to carry fixed-blades, why be so concerned about the lock strength of your folders? If you're worried about overstressing your folder, shouldn't you be reaching for your fixed-blade instead?

To me, the whole emphasis on super-duper lock strength only matters if you're going to use your folder to try to emulate a fixed-blade. But if you're actually going to carry a fixed-blade, it's much ado about nothing.

 

[Jonslaught]

When did I make that claim? If I felt that way I would have never suggested the 4MAX to up against the RAO, being that the 4MAX is a mere folder and would be completely out of its depth against it.

I don't think questions remain here, though they are good ones from a philosophical standpoint. I usually go two deep (joke opportunity #1), primary and secondary, because tools can fail. The stronger folder gives that extra padding and assurance when used as a back up. Like my Kershaw Knockout for instance, I back that up with an old model American Lawman. With the Knockout, I have concern about the way the steel partial framelock is affixed to the aluminum handle. I use it cause I like to carry it, its very attractive to me, but just in case there's any tougher job, I'd whip out the crude Tri-Ad knife -- and the one I'd lend out if someone needed to use one for a second -- ill need it back tho . Just more assurance, or insurance, cuz I'd be saving the more expensive knife from potentially more damage. Sure I can just use my ESEE 3 at all times as I've done for that 2 year span, but that would be no fun to me at this point. I recently got an Endura with the Wave as an option in the primary role, it is so fast. The only Spyderco, I think, I'll ever love. I love it so much I wish Spyderco had the patent on the Wave. I like the way they are forced to alter their blade shape to accommodate it.

 

[bld522]

When did I make that claim? If I felt that way I would have never suggested the 4MAX to up against the RAO, being that the 4MAX is a mere folder and would be completely out of its depth against it.

Good. Sounds like we're both on the same page then. Of course, neither the 4MAX nor the RAO are fixed-blade knives and I wouldn't substitute a REAL fixed blade for either one of them. But as you say, they're interesting from a philosophical point of view.

As far as a backup to my fixed-blade is concerned, I plan to carry a multitool rather than a folder. So lock strength really doesn't make any difference to me at all.

 

[Jonslaught]

Which MT?

 

[bld522]

Swisstool Spirit X.

 

[Danke42]

A knife is just a tiny wedge.

 

[Jonslaught]

That Swisstool is loaded. I have a lowly Skeletool that I hang off my belt loop. I couldn't carry the fixed blade scout style without them obstructing eachother. It does have a pocket clip -- even though I got it specifically to hang off my damned belt loop . The blade on it is a good size for EDC in its own right and is easily accessible. The ergonomics are perfect for the blade. It actually has ergonomics. Overall, it has like 4 tools on it, that's why I called it lowly. I just added the bit kit to widen its capabilities, I keep those in my wallet. You might ask why I chose to get this one: well, I really never had my own multitool before and I thought it looked cool. I remember being surprised on how small it is. COLD STEEL LAWSUIT!

 

[Zemapeli]

Shame that two good cutlery companies would conflict like this.... :thumbup:
The CRKT M16 14M is an amazing knife, I actually love the autolawks system on it.. I have had it for years.. Just as sturdy as the CS Voyager in my opinion. Both are very good sturdy designs... I am a customer of both. The M16 14T is amazing as well.. Thinking about a Twistmaster, but am having trouble finding an first production.. We will see...

 

[bld522]

The CRKT M16 14M is an amazing knife, I actually love the autolawks system on it.. I have had it for years.. Just as sturdy as the CS Voyager in my opinion.

Admittedly so. But if you can't suspend an elephant from its blade without the lock failing, is it safe to use?

Until the knife industry establishes a standard for the amount of weight a knife safety has to be able to hold without failing before it can be certified as "safe", we're just shooting in the dark, ladies and gentlemen. The safety standard I set for myself is just as good as the safety standard anyone else sets for themselves. So what's my safety standard? I figure if I can suspend a carton of 20-lb printer paper . . . 50 lbs give or take . . . off of a blade without the lock failing, the lock is plenty strong enough to keep me from hurting myself. That means that I would consider knives like the CRKT M16 and the Spyderco Paramilitary 2 perfectly safe knives to use. And of course any Cold Steel knife with a Tri-Ad lock would easily fall into my "safe" knives category. :thumbup: Elephants beware!

 

[ursamajor]

Your statement contains a contradiction. Why bother carrying a fixed-blade at all if a folder can be made that's every bit as strong? Isn't blade strength the only real advantage a fixed-blade has over a folder? And wouldn't the convenience of carrying a folder always outweigh the bulkiness of carrying a fixed-blade if the fixed-blade offers no strength advantages? Seems to me the answer to that question is a no-brainer. Everybody should throw out their fixed-blades and replace them with Tri-Ad folders, right? But wait! I look at the Cold Steel catalog and what do I see? Fixed-blades. And then there's Andrew's statement that the Tri-Ad lock probably can't defeat a REAL fixed-blade.



So who's right . . . you or Andrew?

This is beating a dead horse. Handguns do not replace rifles. However, for ease of carry in urban environments, handguns can be better suited for certain situations. Folders do not replace fixed blades. However, for ease of carry in urban environments, folders can be better suited for certain situations.