Cold Steel's all out venture into 3V steel... Your thoughts?

PocketKnifeJimmy

PocketKnifeJimmy

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Aug 4, 2013
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So, while looking through Cold Steel's 2021 catalog, I realized that certain well known CS models are/or will be in the marketplace in 3V form. But, many are no longer available in more traditional/more affordable steel grades.
I believe in the past, CS's method of offering popular models in both higher end AND basic traditional grade steels, was a great way to hit a wide range of customers.
I personally still feel it's the best way to go with their best known and popular sellers.
Well, now I see that such models as the Laredo, Natchez, and Trail Master Bowie knives, are only offered in premium or somewhat more exotic steels.
The Laredo & Natchez now only seem to be offered in the 3V, while the Trail Master is only offered in 3V or in VG-1 San Mai.
Also, while the 3V versions have MSRP's that don't seem way out of line with their usual MSRP's, the actual street pricing of these products are way higher than usual, they being listed for almost full MSRP... Ouch!
As an example of this, Knifecenter, which I feel to be a competitively priced and overall outstanding online knife vendor, has the Cold Steel 3V Italian made Trail Master priced at just under $460... That is not MSRP, but the actual selling price! Again... OUCH!
Now, this is not a knife that requires an exotic or expensive material handle, one that may have also required a good amount of human skill to install and fit & finish. Nope, it's CS's Kray-ex, which is injected molded and doesn't require any level of hand craftsmanship to make or install. I would likely not be far off to say that these handles likely cost less than three or four dollars to make and install on these knives, (and even that is likely a high estimated guess).
Yes, the blade steel is known to be a tough steel, and is an expensive steel to make because of it's state of the art manufacturing process that it involves, (over traditional knife steel methods), but in the end, these steel blades are mostly done by the CNC method. While they likely have some hands on work done to them, it's not like the Japan made San Mai Trail Master that requires true hands on craftsmanship after the bulk of the CNC machining is done in order to achieve that convexed blade shape and sharpening on it. This, btw, is the most likely reason that when CS moved their San Mai knife production to Taiwan, that the San Mai Trail Master was the only San Mai model to remain in Japan, since the Taiwan source was also great with their CNC product making abilities, but did not have their forte in the hand convexing required for the Trail Master's San Mai steel blade.
So, again... The Italian made 3V Trail Master has a very usable, but very inexpensive handle. An expensive steel, but mostly CNC made blade, (which I believe has a CNC done full flat grind done on them), and a price tag that almost approaches $500... OUCH!
When one realizes that 3V, which is a Crucible company, (of Syracuse NY), made tough specialty grade steel, is likely expensive... Then one also wonders why CS then chose to have these knives made in Italy, instead of Taiwan, which would have likely kept the prices down a bit, while still being done in a quality manner?
Anyhow, I can't wrap my head around their move to only using 3V with some of these model knives. Using 3V is perfectly fine, I applaud their use of higher end offerings, but to not include more traditional steel models as affordable options of those models... well, I just don't get that part of it at all.

Well, there's my long winded opinion on Cold Steel' latest venture into using 3V steel, and their choosing Italy as their source to have these knives made.

Now it's your turn...
What say you folks?
 
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When we first discussed these knives we suggested that such an upgrade should also include going with well finished micarta or g10 grips and a much better quality leather, kydex, (etc. sheath). A simple change in steel does not justify a $300-400 price hike. Selling such an item with the same cheap cheesy secure-ex sheath used on their $20 knives is ludicrous and insulting.

Would you consider a $500 Trailmaster if it came in 3V, with a well done solid grip, a polished blade and a Sullivan-level leather sheath? If you want to price them like Randall Made Knives, you have to offer a comparable package; and not just a chunk of steel with a rubber over mold stuffed into a junk sheath.

n2s
 
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not2sharp said:
When we first discussed these knives we suggested that such an upgrade should also include going with well finished micarta or g10 grips and a much better quality leather, kydex, (etc. sheath). A simple change in steel does not justify a $300-400 price hike. Selling such an item with the same cheap cheesy secure-ex sheath used on their $20 knives is ludicrous and insulting.

Would you consider a $500 Trailmaster if it came in 3V, with a well done solid grip, a polished blade and a Sullivan-level leather sheath? If you want to price them like Randall Made Knives, you have to offer a comparable package; and not just a chunk of steel with a rubber over mold stuffed into a junk sheath.

n2s
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Yes, Sir, well said. I totally agree.

I mean, an inexpensive handle material, an inexpensive handle installation, an inexpensive sheath... And, yes, okay, it does have a definite upgrade in steel... But it does not equal a $500 price tag for these knives!

PS. I have a good feeling that these will not be a good seller at all for them.

On a related note...
I had purchased a CRKT large outdoors/camping knife for my collection that went by the title of 'KHC' (Karen Hood Chopper). It was being made by Tops under contract for CRKT, with Karen Hood being it's designer.
The blade material was 1095 high carbon steel with a black epoxy finish. The handle scales were a gray'ish micarta type with white liners. The knife, while American and nicely made, was nothing really special. The sheath was absolutely an inexpensive nylon jobbie that fits right into the cheapie category.
And yet, they had a MSRP, (if my memory serves me correctly), of something like $375 - $400!... Ouch!

I believe too many folks needed to get a piece of the pie, and in the end, there simply wasn't enough pie to go around.
What I mean is... There was first CRKT in the mix to get some cash out of it, since it was ultimately their company's offering.
Then there was Karen Hood needing to get a piece of the cash pie, with her being the designer of the knife and her name to be used in the knife's branding, (the KHC), and marketing of it.
And last, but not least, the third party needing to get their piece of the cash pie, and it would need to be upfront, since they were the actual makers of the knife... the Tops knife company. Tops is certainly known to be a decent quality US knife making company.
Yup, CRKT priced it like a Chevy Corvette, but was only offering a Chevy Monte Carlo for that money. Hey, the Chevy Monte Carlo was a nice car, but you couldn't price it like a Chevy Corvette and expect it to sell well! šŸ˜†
I wound up buying a CRKT KHC for just about $100 total, (and that's including S&H), after they sat on dealers shelves, gathering dust, and CRKT wound up selling off their remaining inventories at bargain bin prices.
While paying anywhere near $375 to $400 would have been ridiculous for this knife, paying only about $100 for it, made it a great buy!




That, my friends, is where I believe these will end up as well. It's not that they will be junk, but the pricing on them, even with today's crazy inflation levels, doesn't equal a realistic number... Not even close!
A mistake the knife buying community could do, is to pay these kinds of prices, giving them reason to keep doing it. Nope... I recently paid just under $270 for the Japanese made Cold Steel Trail Master in VG-1 San Mai. Not cheap, but a good amount less than it's MSRP of $500.
 
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KenHash said:
I am going to hold off on any opinions until I actually see these 3V TMs available and people have bought them and there are
opinions and reviews. Me..I'm still waiting for that A2 TM..lol.
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Agreed...... However my wait for the A2 versions led me to the Alpha Regulator knife made by SYKCO...... And since I couldn't buy the cold steel, I happily bought one of these........

American made. Same kind of blade shape, beefy, better handle, better tang, better everything....... I Love it.

*Only posting here to inform others
 
nephron said:
I wonder if the people buying these are aware of this:Corrosion Resistance - "CPM 3V steel is not stainless steel, it will oxidize if not properly cared for." Its a great steel but needs the right care.
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Yup, I guess it's ingredients don't make it a rust magnet... But it surely isn't a stainless steel.
 
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My guess, and it is only a guess, is that we will never see the promised 3V Bowies and Kukris. And if we do i cannot see them selling for the absurd prices these online retailers have on their pre orders.
 
Chris_Texas said:
My guess, and it is only a guess, is that we will never see the promised 3V Bowies and Kukris. And if we do i cannot see them selling for the absurd prices these online retailers have on their pre orders.
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You may be right, sir!
I would add, if these 3V knives are not actually on one of those ships off the coast of California that are waiting to dock and unload at some point, then I don't understand why GSM/Cold Steel hasn't informed all of it's vendors.
We are now almost into November, so if they are not out there somewhere heading our way to the US, then, yes, they will likely be nothing more than "vaporware".
As for those prices they are asking for them, (based on online sites that are taking pre-orders for them)... Well, OUCH is all I can say. Your guessing is likely to be spot on about their sales if they ever do hit stateside vendors shelves.
 
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PocketKnifeJimmy said:
You may right, sir!
I would add, if these 3V knives are not actually on one of those ships off the coast of California that are waiting to dock and unload at some point, then I don't understand why GSM/Cold Steel hasn't informed all of it's vendors.
We are now almost into November, so if they are not out there somewhere heading our way to the US, then, yes, they will likely be nothing more than "vaporware".
As for those prices they are asking for them, (based on online sites that are taking pre-orders for them)... Well, OUCH is all I can say. Your guessing is likely to be spot on about their sales if they ever do hit stateside vendors shelves.
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Here is your knife.

 
My prefered vendor has the 3v, SRK in. I came close to pressing the key but buying that would feel like all my old Japanese AUS8's have no use. And sharpening it would be a challenge. Maybe those with deeper pockets and higher level sharpening skills can justify grabbing 3V, I can't. I'm sticking with my Old Steel AUS8 that I can easily get scary sharp. It may not hold the edge forever, but it takes nothing to bring it back. I'm keeping an eye on what comes out in AUS-10. It's closer to what I can afford, my sharpening skill level, and traditional cost/value that Old Steel used to have.
 
PocketKnifeJimmy said:
You may right, sir!
I would add, if these 3V knives are not actually on one of those ships off the coast of California that are waiting to dock and unload at some point, then I don't understand why GSM/Cold Steel hasn't informed all of it's vendors.
We are now almost into November, so if they are not out there somewhere heading our way to the US, then, yes, they will likely be nothing more than "vaporware".
As for those prices they are asking for them, (based on online sites that are taking pre-orders for them)... Well, OUCH is all I can say. Your guessing is likely to be spot on about their sales if they ever do hit stateside vendors shelves.
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How many years did these same retailers (and CS) list the O1 and A2 models even when it was clear they were never coming? Heck, I am fairly sure that at least one major online vendor still shows the A2 knives as coming soon. In any case, I think GSM pricing shows just how out of touch they are with the knife world and their competitors pricing and quality. In my opinion of course.
 
I am hoping to still get my backordered CS Chaos Bowie Knife at some point, (it's on one of those offshore ships, I feel it in my bones! šŸ˜† ).
I'm not currently waiting for anything else from the CS line-up, and although I do hope I get my Chaos Bowie to complete the entire Chaos series for my collection, it won't be a major disappointment if I don't get it.
Still, I will keep my fingers crossed that it's on one of those ships with all of that 3V Cold Steel heading our way! šŸ¤žšŸ˜†šŸ¤ž
 
Let's see...

I got my GSM Talwar. It was badly messed up, but a few hours work with sandpaper corrected it.

I got a LT Oyabun at a crazy discount from Midway, and it was perfect. I like it a lot.

I am currently waiting on a 3V Trailmaster from the same vendor, even knowing that I will need to replace the sheath. I do not actually expect to ever see it, but if it does come in I will probably buy it if the price is reasonable.

Other than that there really aren't any Sold Steel "units" blowing my skirt up. Stick guy is trying his best to beat that dead horse, but it feels like the demented Thompson Demko passion is gone. GSM doesn't care. Even their public spokesman doesn't know knives or knife buyers.

What new creations can we look forward to? Who is there to design them? The answers, I suspect, are nothing and no one. Perhaps they will hire someone to answer the phone for warranty calls, or maybe they will just roll it into a massive GSM Service phone bank. "For problems with Cold Steel press one".
 
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IMO 3V is a good idea for high end knives so those who want them can buy CS knives in 3V. It would be somewhat like how San Mai III knives were back when it was made in Japan and they included quality leather sheaths.

However, if they are doing what they appear to be doing and the knife models such as the Bowies that will be in 3V will no longer be made in 01 or other steels and will now be places in the custom knife range, I doubt they'd compete well.

If people don't specifically want 9+ inch Bowies with guards and just want large chopping knives, then TOPS, Esee, Becker, etc. will be far more competitive for knives in that class. If they do want such knives, then they might go with a Randall or a full custom at those prices.
 
Not sure what is going on with their steel selection, but do have a few thoughts on their pricing.

Didn't they recently get a new owner? He might be trying to move the brand more up market. There is a lot more money being thrown around the knife world these days compared to just ten years ago, and they might be trying to get a bigger piece of it by simply charging more. Especially dropping their more economical offerings can make them seem more upscale to justify the higher prices. Keep in mind the majority of the knife buying public doesn't track knife prices or historical offering by companies so a change of face(image) wouldn't be too hard. At least with the 3V there might be some substance to the higher price in some cases.

The other thing that came to mind is the gotta have it now crowd. Keep seeing things out of stock, prices going through the roof, and people scalping on the side making an easy buck. Then said items get in stock, there are plenty available, and prices fall back down to earth. Don't underestimate the instant gratification gotta have it now aspect of pricing. Some patience can save you a lot of money.

Personally, with the prices you stated I would look for a little more bang for my buck, but the market might be there to support them.
 
It does seem that CS has some of their knife models made in the 3V over in Taiwan.
Now we see certain other 3V models that have been slated for Italian manufacture, and I keep wondering where the advantage is in them doing that. By the prices being listed, it seems like it's costing them more to do it in Italy. So... what benefit do you guys think they make by choosing Italy over Taiwan on these?
 
On the other hand, I got a Cold Steel 14AKA AK-47 (silly name) for $140:
* 10.38 inch (26.37cm) overall
* 5.5 inch (13.97cm) stonewash finish CPM-3V carbon steel blade
* OD green finger grooved G10 handle
* Full, extended tang
* Lanyard hole
* Black Secure-Ex belt sheath

Excellent blade--you can use it as a mini machete. Excellent handle--much better than a Guardian 6. And the sheath is good, unlike several that have come with fixed-blade knives that I have bought. But I do not carry it often during the summer when it rains almost every day.
 
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ā€œChevy Corvetteā€ models would be great. Itā€™d be nice to have 1095 or SK5 Trailmasters and Recon Scouts in production.

As for the high end 3V models, theyā€™re too steep for me. For less than those prices, you could get some good customs already. But nonetheless, itā€™s good that they didnā€™t ditch the 3V knives.
 
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