You would know more than I do. I just know my bad experience with 80CrV2 and it was similar. Every other steel I played with I at least had some sort of clue about what I did wrong but that stuff was a mystery. When Salim eventually told me what went wrong it was a big load off my mind. The steel looks good on paper but I have never had good luck so as soon as I use up what I have or give it to my nephew I'm done with it What I did learn was that I don't have enough time to learn how to do it right in a forge so I bought a oven and when I can't use it I'm going to make sure that I get it done right. I'm glad that I didn't have to figure it out on my own like you guys did. We have it easy with internet and now with Larrin and his book we don't have a lot of excuses for not giving it a decent go.
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Confused with why my edge is rolling
- Thread starter emjay
- Start date
Thanks for that. That gave me some insight.Some steel comes in a state called large spheroids. I'm not a expert and the best thing you can do is readLarrin 's knife steel nerds website or better yet get his book and it's a bargain. The way I understand it is that it is a lot easier to drill and machine in that state and especially with steel that is commonly used in industry it is desired. I used a small forge and followed the same direction that you did and most of the time it would get hard although it probably isn't the best. It did get sharp and overall I was happy then I came to the problem steel that is supposed to be a good beginner steel and had similar problems. When guys forge they know that they have to deal with it but when we do stock removal most of the time we don't have to but that can cause problems. It is a bit more complex steel than something like 1084 so there are a lot of things that could go wrong as well but it does sound a lot like the problems I had along the way. I scratched my head for a couple of months until someone mentioned that it's a issue with steel from that supplier. To be clear if that is the problem it's not a defect it's just how it was made. I bought a oven so I wouldn't have to guess but since I'm not trying to do it by eye there is no reason not to use a steel with more performance. When you go through through all the work to make a knife it's kinda nice to get the extra performance. Using a alloy steel or stainless can usually make things easier even. High alloy can be easier because it can be thinner at the edge when they harden it. If I remember right most places are ok with 0.010 at the edge and you can do a lot of your finish sanding before you send it in. That isn't as thin as a lot of us like to go in the kitchen but it isn't very thick as far as commercial knives go. If you want the edge finer you can just convex the edge in. That's not a bad way to go in the kitchen anyway. Hope things go well for your second one. Don't give up. Let us know if there is anything we can do to help earlier in the process. How are you going about it? A fileing jig? I had made some crappy ones when I was a teenager and then learned enough to think I needed tons of equipment and then waiting until I could afford it. That was a mistake. I think the time it takes to make one by hand might help a person take the time to plan and make a well made knife and perhaps do a bit better with design. The biggest mistake that I did and a lot of others do and did my best to toss together a bunch of stuff that I had wanted changed about knives that I had in the past and just had at it. For me at the time it wasn't the worst thing since I didn't have much time and was stressed out and just wanted to stand in front of the grinder. It didn't make the knives better but I learned a few things. The best thing I can recommend is to read through the "What's going on in your shop thread" and get some ideas about what you want to build unless you already have something in mind. You can carve a prototype out of wood and work out any problems before you start in on what you want. You will be surprised how well you can do. Custom heat treatment can hold up to a much thinner edge and and if you do a nice grind you can get way more performance than anything you can buy off the shelf. Good luck.
I've made quite a few knives before, from all sorts of steel from old files, saw blades, machetes, leaf springs and actual known steel from a supplier. Most have worked out OK when I figured out how to heat them. I've even sold a couple to friends and family members, but with them fully knowing that my methods are primitive and not precise, but they liked that fact. So far one mate of mine has three of my knives and he's very happy with them. One is a big honking BK2 looking one made from a leaf spring that his mother uses to break apart whole chickens and smash garlic, another more delicate one made from an old small Nicholson file and the most recent is a general utility blade out of O1 steel. I mostly use a filing jig but sometimes I'll be lazy and screw on a flap disk onto my angle grinder and grind the bevels like that if I just want to make a cutting tool, but prefer the filing jig for precision. It's slow going but easier to be precise. Currently making a santoku knife out of N690 for my girlfriend. Just finished up the grinds using the filing jig and it looks pretty sweet. Will definitely send it out to Bohler to be professionally heat treated though. Will keep the backyard heat treating to scavenged steel.
I wish I could find 1084. I'm not sure its available in my country. I'd love to make a knife out of it and heat treat it myself since I always hear how forgiving it is
1084 is ok. There are reasons to use it but I think sometimes it's over rated as a beginners steel. Can you get 15n20? It's a Bohler steel and I would take it over 1084 any time. They heat treat similarly. That's the reason they are mixed for Damascus commonly. I still have some knives that I made with it in my kitchen and they work well. Not the best but not bad. The only problem is that it's not made in thick stock. Some of the other guys can probably recommend some options that would work for you that you can get down there. Maybe start a new thread and ask.
I can get 15n20, but I've read it's more similar to 1075?
If you are doing a simple heat treatment you won't be able to tell them apart as far as edge holding other than real 15n20 is a higher quality steel. I mean as far as I know it's cleaner. I don't claim to be good at forge heat treatment so my results are probably as good as you can hope for. I was using a gas forge so it's a bit easier to control than charcoal. I have messed up 1084 and never had problems with 15n20 so take that for what it is. I'm sure guys who really know what they are doing could possibly tell a difference. As far as I know we don't have any testing on new 15n20 yet but most people think it's tougher from the nickel and it also rust a little bit less because of that as well. It makes fantastic kitchen knives and everyone who has used them loves them and it is far better than anything they got off the shelf even with my noob heat treatment. I have them from recycled saw blades that might be less tough done by
Willie71
out if a oven and real quench oil at 63Rc and I think it's every bit as good if not better than my AEB-L knives other than the rust thingy. So far it's my favorite simple steel.I don't know if you can get 8670 down there but guys have been getting some awesome success with it lately and I think it's beginer friendly. If I were you and wanted to do something in a forge I would run a thread about what steels are available to you. If you are going to send it out almost any high alloy or stainless is better than 1084 and you can finish it before it's hard compared to a oil quench steel that has to be left thick so it doesn't warp. 1084 is just a good forging steel that doesn't require a long soak so it is recommended to beginners because trying to hold the temp by eye for 10 minutes takes tons of skill.
Larrin
has out out tons of good information lately and it's worth taking the time to know why some if these steels are recommended.
D
DevinT
had a thread a couple of years ago and said 80CrV2 is probably better to start with but it depends on what mill you get it from. Bohler puts out good stuff so if you can get something from them I wouldn't worry about quality I would just aim for your interest use.
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