Considering Buying Musashi Shirakawa Katana... advice needed

BePrepared

BePrepared

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Aug 26, 2010
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I'm looking at buying the one at the link below... after the discount code, and the shipping, it comes out to $81.

That's really all i'm willing to spend on a katana, as it will spend almost all of it's life on a stand. I want something that is well made, but not high end. I also want it to be CAPABLE of being functional, and usable when needed

i really like the fact that it is carbon steel with a real hamon rather than the stainless with brushed hamon that you usually see in this price range.

I know quite well that i can spend twice as much and get a much better sword, but i don't intend to do so

I'd like to hear from people who have owned one, or sword experts who know about them.

Also, if you know where to get the one at the link below, for less than $81 including shipping please let me know

http://www.trueswords.com/musashi-1060-carbon-steel-bamboo-warrior-sword-black-saya-p-4315.html
 
1060 is a good enough steel, and the differential hardening is a plus. Never had one, but for the money you really can't complain. I spent more than that on my aluminium alloy decorative katana back in 1989...
 
BePrepared said:
it will spend almost all of it's life on a stand. I want something that is well made, but not high end. I also want it to be CAPABLE of being functional, and usable when needed
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If it will live on a stand, fine...but honestly I wouldn't plan on using it, ever.
 
BePrepared said:
i really like the fact that it is carbon steel with a real hamon rather than the stainless with brushed hamon that you usually see in this price range.
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It is not a real hamon, it is acid etched. And it is questionable if it is really a carbon steel.
 
viva la said:
It is not a real hamon, it is acid etched. And it is questionable if it is really a carbon steel.
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from what i've read, that is incorrect. This particular line has genuine hamon lines, and the steel is 1060 (there are a few reviews that explore this fact extensively)

the cheaper version ($40) have etched or brushed hamon lines and are not differentially hardened, but this particular model, and indeed the entire Shirakawa series have 1060 steel, hand sharpened blades with genuine hamon lines
 
Well for that price it's worth a try. I'd just be very cautious about doing and cutting. It sounds to good to be true.
 
BePrepared said:
from what i've read, that is incorrect. This particular line has genuine hamon lines, and the steel is 1060 (there are a few reviews that explore this fact extensively)

the cheaper version ($40) have etched or brushed hamon lines and are not differentially hardened, but this particular model, and indeed the entire Shirakawa series have 1060 steel, hand sharpened blades with genuine hamon lines
Click to expand...

you asked for opinions I am merely giving you mine

1) it IS an etched hamon. believe me or don't believe me I really couldn't care less.

2) the article you posted (http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/Musashi-Bamboo.html) states "genuine ray skin" and THAT is false.

3) Saya fitting changing due to atmospheric conditions is false. They are designed to fit a particular way. they either fit or they don't

4) the article questions what kind of steel is used and so do I. Matter of fact he leans towards a softer 1045 steel

5) the tang looks very unfinished. that can lead to imperfections which can lead to catastrophic failure.

you get what you pay for I guess. Like I said above, I would hang it on my wall but I would not use it.

just my opinions
 
BePrepared said:
... it will spend almost all of it's life on a stand
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Then no way. If you ever plan to use that for anything but display, the low cost will show. And we are talking about a sword that is sharp. If it fails at the handle (as I suspect it would), you could kill yourself or someone else. A Japanese-style katana that you plan to use is not something to spend $80 on. I wouldn't even recommend buying a Paul Chen for real cutting, and those cost several hundred dollars.

I don't mean to be a gloomy Guss, but I can't emphasize this enough.
 
... to that point, let me say that a katana for real cutting (tameshigiri) should cost several thousand dollars, at least, and that's if it's made by a Westerner (Japanese-style)... not true Japanese. A real Japanese katana will cost even more. That's just the reality of it. There are a few Japanese-trained American sword smiths who make real cutting swords out of cable that you could take into battle. If you want to know more, I'd suggest talking to Michael Bell, probably one of the better-known and most knowledgeable Westerners when it comes to Japanese swords. His website: http://dragonflyforge.com/

Cheers, and again, sorry for being a downer, but it's the truth.
 
viva la said:
you asked for opinions I am merely giving you mine

1) it IS an etched hamon. believe me or don't believe me I really couldn't care less.


2) the article you posted (http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/Musashi-Bamboo.html) states "genuine ray skin" and THAT is false.

3) Saya fitting changing due to atmospheric conditions is false. They are designed to fit a particular way. they either fit or they don't

4) the article questions what kind of steel is used and so do I. Matter of fact he leans towards a softer 1045 steel

5) the tang looks very unfinished. that can lead to imperfections which can lead to catastrophic failure.

you get what you pay for I guess. Like I said above, I would hang it on my wall but I would not use it.

just my opinions
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Opinions are very welcome, but you state that the hamon is acid etched as FACT. Facts have to be based on evidence. Can you please provide me with the evidence that you are using to assert that the company itself is overtly lying, and the reviewer in the article i listed is incorrect in his assessment that the hamon is real?

I am not arguing with you, but i'd like to know upon what you are basing your absolute statement that the hamon is not real
 
I have to side with "viva la." For $80, you cannot buy a 27" katana with a real hamon. Why? Because the clay has to be set on the blade and quenched correctly for the sword to bend at the right geometry without cracking. That takes skill. That takes years of practice. For $80, you get a Chinese factory worker in Canton, on an assembly line in a dirty workshop, with *zero* skill, cranking out blanks and passing them to the guy who etches them. The company is lying or--at least--grossly exaggerating what they are selling you.

Ever heard the phrase "too good to be true?" That applies here.
 
viva la said:
you asked for opinions I am merely giving you mine

1) it IS an etched hamon. believe me or don't believe me I really couldn't care less.

2) the article you posted (http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/Musashi-Bamboo.html) states "genuine ray skin" and THAT is false.

3) Saya fitting changing due to atmospheric conditions is false. They are designed to fit a particular way. they either fit or they don't

4) the article questions what kind of steel is used and so do I. Matter of fact he leans towards a softer 1045 steel

5) the tang looks very unfinished. that can lead to imperfections which can lead to catastrophic failure.

you get what you pay for I guess. Like I said above, I would hang it on my wall but I would not use it.

just my opinions
Click to expand...

1. It is a real hamon that is acid enhanced. Using a microscope you can see the differences in grain going from I believe pearlite and martensite.
2. It is real same, I've owned approximately 4 of these shikarawa I gave away, and I've ordered somewhere in the neighborhood of $1,000 worth of Samegawa from Namikawa for personal use alone, and have seen approximately 80 different samegawas in person at a local tannery (expensive for the quality, the ask for $180 a skin when the skin is similar to a $80 skin from namikawa). The shikarawa same is real just very low quality. I would estimate the skin came from a $60~ samegawa large low quality skin, however it is genuine.
3. Magnets stick to it, this proves it is not most stainless steel alloys and based on hardness and brittleness I would say it's 50 HRC~ 1045 Carbon steel versus 1060 carbon, although they have changed steels I have a newer one that is has not rolled where the older shikarawa has. It is softer then most other katana and is not prone to chipping. But it is prone to taking sets, and rolling the edge. I am fairly certain the blades are rolled or stamped.
4. ? Can you specify anything at all. No the tangs are not "unfinished" and are cut clean~. Some schools of swordsmithing filed their nakago, other's did not. Some oxidized some did not. The only thing that would worry me is the tsuka core, which can be prone to cracking due to poor fit. Most of the Shikarawa series is standardized. Blade sizes, nakago's, etc.

Overall save your money man, Shikarawa series is not functional in the sense it can be used for it's original intended purpose, war. It will however dispatch water bottles at best.
The only $150~ sword that is truly functional but long discontinued is the Munetoshi T10 Matsu. Phenomenal heat treatment, and stunning construction for the price and a bit above it. If you can find one used, take it.
Munetoshi introduced the newer version "light cutter" but I suspect they switched forges because the craftmanship looks different.

Lastly a lot of people don't realize clay tempering was NOT the only way of producing hamon traditionally.
Here are some ways that I know of that were used traditionally. There's I think 2 other ways apart from these three, however I dont recall, I stopped pursuit Japanese swords.
1. Clay Tempering coating both the spine and edge.
2. Clay tempering ONLY the spine leaving the edge uncovered.
3. No clay just controlling the quench, the most difficult form of producing hamon. Produces incredible activity in the steel, but rarely done due to the high risk of failure and expensive cost of tamahagane both in modern and old times.

Real hamons can be mass produced it is not an issue.
 
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If you want to put it on a wall fine. I would not ever use a sword for that price. I think it is more likely to fly out of the handle if swung than anything else.
 
Magnaminous_G said:
... to that point, let me say that a katana for real cutting (tameshigiri) should cost several thousand dollars, at least, and that's if it's made by a Westerner (Japanese-style)... not true Japanese. A real Japanese katana will cost even more. That's just the reality of it. There are a few Japanese-trained American sword smiths who make real cutting swords out of cable that you could take into battle. If you want to know more, I'd suggest talking to Michael Bell, probably one of the better-known and most knowledgeable Westerners when it comes to Japanese swords. His website: http://dragonflyforge.com/

Cheers, and again, sorry for being a downer, but it's the truth.
Click to expand...

Well,that might be your truth,but it's not a fact. Would/should a person use an $80 sword for anything but hanging on the wall ? No
Can you buy a decent cutter for under a grand? Yes. I have, and I believe Steven have used a number of the mid and higher end hanwei products with good results.
 
SShepherd said:
Well,that might be your truth,but it's not a fact. Would/should a person use an $80 sword for anything but hanging on the wall ? No
Can you buy a decent cutter for under a grand? Yes. I have, and I believe Steven have used a number of the mid and higher end hanwei products with good results.
Click to expand...

I take your point, okay. I certainly wouldn't tell anyone they can't cut with their sword, and if that's what the OP wants, then God bless him. But I would stand by my word of caution. A katana is a serious, serious weapon. I wouldn't swing an $80 one unless I had a death wish. One failure while cutting, that 27" blade snaps, bounces off something hard, and... the rest I leave to your imagination.
 
Luis G. said:
1. It is a real hamon that is acid enhanced. Using a microscope you can see the differences in grain going from I believe pearlite and martensite.
Click to expand...

Are you a metallurgist? Did you look at it under a microscope? I have not, but what I can tell you is the process of making the hamon on a sword is to intensive for an 80$ sword. Just like real rayskin is too expensive...Ive bought and used rayskin and that alone costs almost as much as the complete sword here.
 
BePrepared said:
I'm looking at buying the one at the link below... after the discount code, and the shipping, it comes out to $81.

That's really all i'm willing to spend on a katana, as it will spend almost all of it's life on a stand. I want something that is well made, but not high end. I also want it to be CAPABLE of being functional, and usable when needed

i really like the fact that it is carbon steel with a real hamon rather than the stainless with brushed hamon that you usually see in this price range.

I know quite well that i can spend twice as much and get a much better sword, but i don't intend to do so

I'd like to hear from people who have owned one, or sword experts who know about them.

Also, if you know where to get the one at the link below, for less than $81 including shipping please let me know

http://www.trueswords.com/musashi-1060-carbon-steel-bamboo-warrior-sword-black-saya-p-4315.html
Click to expand...

Simple Answer....save your money.
 
Okay, now that i've heard from a bunch of people with opinions and absolutely no experience whatsoever with the sword in question, i'd like to hear from someone who has handled, used, or otherwise had physical experience with the sword i'm looking at.

Not to be rude, but there's absolutely nothing useful in statements about how worthless a sword is, when they come from someone who has never once handled the weapon in question.
 
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