Shunsui, in your reply to Vasili
I think the information given is more significant than you give credit for. The fact your test results are different just suggests different variables in methods.
Yes I am working with a steel manufacturer now to prepare some samples for CATRA testing. As a result I have learned more about the test procedure. The company that does the testing takes the sample piece, does the finish grind and sharpening themselves to exactly the same criteria for each piece. They will also be provided with the heat treat process and the hardness of each sample to use in the report.
This is different than testing a variety of knives from different manufactures, with different geometry and unknown heat treat and hardness.
It is testing various steels for edge wear resistance only I think. Other qualities like toughness and corrosion resistance ect. are not considered but it seems like with a machine doing the cutting, it is about as pure as you can get and the best we have at this time to evaluate relative edge holding.
By the way my testing of the knives I make have pretty much followed the information Sal gave me on his experience with CATRA. CPM S90V and ZDP 189 work out close to the same in my rope cutting tests. CPM S90V works best at RC 61, is full of very hard carbides and this tends to offset the high hardness advantage (RC66) of ZDP 189. This is my opinion, some could call it hersay or rumor thats ok with me--- but for what ever it is worth.
.. Phil
This may be very true and wise - but so far we are about things do not exist.
Show me test results and then I will be able to see everything myself, but instead we are talking a lot about thing does not exist for us, but only for chosen knife elite or something.
So far without rumor, proven results (for us little people), only:
1. Spyderco Endura ZDP189 - 3rd place
2. Spyderco Military CPM S90V - 13th place
3. Custom CPM 10V - 14th place.
You may talk about this or that , but without test results - this will be just talks.
I can talk as well. Let me try:
"High volume of vanadium carbides of CPM S90V, CPM 10V - which is about 9% plus other carbides with total contents over 15% weaken steel matrix to the extent it is not steel any more but some kind of ceramical stone.
Which of course show high abrasive resistance useful for certain industrial application but but for cuttlery means only high price for grinding without too much benefits to cutting ability, because steel matrix polluted by so many carbides is too weak to hold edge.
It is like concrete with too many sands - edge just can not hold proper angle."
Well I just unleash my fantasy, however this sound pretty good, as i am know what I am talking about. I can produce things like this a lot, just for fan. And I do not value this - is such thing produced by me or someone else. I know - talks are cheap.
I saw even more excited writings about shell-like cementit formations which line up to form sharp and strong edge being as flexible a spring. Or diamond particles created inside blade body out of high carbon volume due to extreme pressure happening during crio quenching. Steel molecules being shaped in oval by forging. And even 77HRC hardness. Etc, etc, etc....
So in short - any theory is just theory until proven by testing.
Until test result disclosed - talks about testing is again just talks.
So if you did some testing - please, provide results, as well as description of procedure. Otherwise - it will be one more rumor.
Thanks, Vassili.