Cut winning over thrust?

tallwingedgoat

tallwingedgoat

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Jan 13, 1999
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It has been argued that the thrust is superior to the cut, and is the ultimate evolution in swordsmanship.

I saw a martial art demonstration of "flow hitting". The practitioner was able to deliver 6 blows in about a second. None of these were Karate style straight punches, they were arching movements keeping the body in constant motion.

So then it occured to me, that despite the fact that a thrust can be faster than a cut (the straightline between two points arguement), a thrust has the same weakness that a Karate punch has - exposing the fighter, prone to being trapped, and slow rate of attack. If you ever see a katana cutting demonstration, a good cutter can deliver three or more cuts in what looks like a single fluid motion by allowing the momentum of the sword to do the work. But to deliver three thrusts require five movements (thrust, recover, repeat...).

I think in a situation where the fighter cannot gurantee victory in one movement, or when facing multiple opponents, the cut can pay big dividends.
 
I think your comment has a lot to do with point of view, and individual training/atributes. IMHO the one that connects with the enemy first is usually the best. If you thrust and miss, then it did'nt work, and same with cut. I have seen people of different fighting styles do amazing things with swords. Speeds that are unbalivable. But their is always someone stronger, quicker, or just plain lucky. Just my opinion, so please take it as such.

Reagan
 
Silver is an excellent resource. The quick answer from me would be

Thrust:
Advangages: Linear, quickest to the target. Devastating in close.
Disadvantage: Confined to line, easy to step out of line and avoid.

Cut:
Advantages: delivers a cutting swath or arc, causing a plane of danger, unlike the thrust.
Disadvantage: Not as direct as the thrust, perhaps easier to detect arc if the swing is 'telegraphed.' not as useful in clise confinement, takes some space.

I've really dumbed these down so please excuse all you other sword-fighters out there.

I use (in sparring) a combination of the cut and thrust, as they both have their place and time, dependent on the flow of the fight.
I feel more comfortable with the cut, as I've gotten used to the sword as it was in 1500BC-1200AD. If I had to use a thrust only type weapon, I'd take the spear over the Rapier any day, as I am trained in that particular weapon. and I could always club with the shaft it necessary. Usually just controlling your target distance is enough.

Keith
En Ferro Veritas
 
When fighting one-on-one duels like true gentlemen the point is an efficient solution. In combat with attackers coming from all sides you want a good edge.
 
Agree that the cut is a very effective movement, but the thrust and thrust/lunge allows for an immediate, and extended-distance attack. It should be the most-effective single move against an opponent. Agree that if you're faced with multiple opponents, your recovery period may invite disaster, and a cut may be less apt to over-extend someone, but then any movement can leave one open from attack when facing multiple opponents. A well-balanced approach would be to use either if the situation/weapon allows. My main hesitancy to use the cut would be that if I'm in range to deliver it, so is my opponent.
 
Oh, and to deliver a cut, my blade has to be way back, out of line of my opponent, hence leaving me exposed. With the thrust, my blade remains in-line with my opponent.
 
Originally posted by scotjute
Agree that the cut is a very effective movement, but the thrust and thrust/lunge allows for an immediate, and extended-distance attack. It should be the most-effective single move against an opponent. Agree that if you're faced with multiple opponents, your recovery period may invite disaster, and a cut may be less apt to over-extend someone, but then any movement can leave one open from attack when facing multiple opponents. A well-balanced approach would be to use either if the situation/weapon allows. My main hesitancy to use the cut would be that if I'm in range to deliver it, so is my opponent.
Click to expand...

Hi,

And this is what people don't get about swordsmanship, especially medieval and early Ren swordsmanship.

If you are already in range of your opponent when you start an attack then you are attacking using false times.

When cutting in a medieval style, one does not just stand in distance and wail away. Silver calls this distance "close distance" and says that he who strikes last in close distance will surely be struck.

You should NEVER let an opponent get close enough to you that he can hit you without putting in a foot.
In medieval swordsmanship, attacks are done on a pass, not a step. ie if I want to do a diagonal blow from the right (mandritta squalembrato) then I stand left foot forward and make a full walking step with the cut.

This allows for the following:
1. It creates a threat that must be dealt with. A stop hit is not often a good idea as a threat is already there by the time the other guy is in distance. You can snipe at forearms on a backward pass, but this is a different story.
2. It allows for a bodyweight assisted blow. This means that you don't have to swing the sword very fast and allows for the attack to slow down or speed up to deceive defences. Most importantly it allows for the attack to subtley change angle. If I make the same attack described above and you make a quarte parry then I will fall under your sword and remove one of your legs.
Cheers
Stu.
 
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