Cutting boards and bacteria

The Hasegawakagaku is my favorite cutting surface. Careful though; they melt like butter with direct heat :oops: šŸ¤£

A solution of 50ppm bleach to water works wonders on surfaces and is industry spec; wipe wet, wait 20 secs, dry with clean cloth. Works with wood or composite. I aways have a 50ppm bleach bucket even in my home kitchen (see pic), required (at least Maryland) in restaurants.

Had a grand butcher block used for many things including pounding veal (aka bacterial inlay by impact); every night scrubbed the block down then made a slurry of coarse salt and mineral oil, rubbed it in well. Next morning came in and brushed the dry salt off the block! Worked for years.

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Dr. Rayeye said:
There are also rubber ones--very big in Europe and Japan: perfect for push cutters!

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Yes the Japanese rubber boards are fantastic quality but expensive; used by sushi chefs and serious home cooks.
I don`t class myself as a chef or serious cook because I don`t do recipes, I blend World cuisine, I don`t weigh or time things.
My lady thinks I`m alright at baking bread, pastry and cakes for example but I don`t have the time or opportunity these days.
 
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roaduck said:
Why are wooden barrels legal but not wooden chopping boards in a restaurant - it doesn`t make sense.
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Of course "sense" and "laws" rarely intersect, but for what it's worth, I remember very clearly that for a long time, it was assumed that wooden boards harbored bacteria but plastics did not. I'm guessing the laws were created then. I think it was in the nineties that at least one study proved the opposite. You don't expect the lawmakers to catch up *that* quickly to new information, do you? Sheesh.
 
jayjaygee said:
Of course "sense" and "laws" rarely intersect, but for what it's worth, I remember very clearly that for a long time, it was assumed that wooden boards harbored bacteria but plastics did not. I'm guessing the laws were created then. I think it was in the nineties that at least one study proved the opposite. You don't expect the lawmakers to catch up *that* quickly to new information, do you? Sheesh.
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For public health officials, it's easier to evaluate plastic and assure compliance. I doubt that restaurant cleanliness standards are based on scientific studies--just best practice.
 
Has the scientific studies explained out why exactly you're supposed to maintain a specific amount of clean?

This also applies to the outdoor guys reading this. Trying to keep clean.


Food poisoning is a distant possibility but not common. The biggest issue is you getting worms. Parasite intestinal worms. Exactly like a dog. You'll see them after the bathroom. They're not that harmful. It's just creepy and gross AF. Living inside you.

They're rather easy to get unless you're keeping things clean.
 
jayjaygee said:
I know a guy who is dying (so he says) from worms he got in Thailand. They're literally eating him alive. Wish I could say I was joking.
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I believe it. But in the states. It's truck stop food.

You know how you instinctively look back after going to the bathroom?

Ever seen dog poop with worms? Yeah, same thing. It will freak you out.

Ever wonder why some lower quality food dishes have a bunch of spicy pepper?

Peppers are human dewormers. They're not hard to get rid of, it's just catching them in the first place.
 
jayjaygee said:
I know a guy who is dying (so he says) from worms he got in Thailand. They're literally eating him alive. Wish I could say I was joking.
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So he can't just take an anti-parasitic drug?

Grasshopperglock said:
They're rather easy to get unless you're keeping things clean.
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It must be a miracle that I've never had them. I'm not really big on washing things. I just cook my food and I figure that's good enough. Hasn't failed me yet.
 
Guy McVer said:
So he can't just take an anti-parasitic drug?


It must be a miracle that I've never had them. I'm not really big on washing things. I just cook my food and I figure that's good enough. Hasn't failed me yet.
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You can get drugs or do it natural. You'd figure it's a rare thing but it's not. I hear it's common in other countries. As explained by a doctor over a phone.

Never set things out on the counter for a long time, thawing out, uncovered. Cooked food especially. Heat kills the larva in most raw foods. Another reason why humans cook their food.

However, If a house fly or knat touches it. There's a chance for worms. Being outdoors, prepping food in the field. It's just a matter of time.

I guess it's an embarrassment for some people to admit they've had worms. I don't care. I'm glad I became aware of it.

But as the food supply becomes lower quality. Or is poorly taken care of. Expect parasites.

Things have to stay clean. Not sterile, clean.

I'm still looking at the wooden cutting boards. One day I will have one.
 
Grasshopperglock said:
However, If a house fly or knat touches it. There's a chance for worms. Being outdoors, prepping food in the field. It's just a matter of time.
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I never tolerate even a single fly in my home. This is because I have watched them land in the toilet. In fact that is reliably where they go and what they will do once they manage to get inside. Straight for the toilet. Do you think I'm going to let one of those filthy things roam freely even for a short time, landing on whatever it wants?

Nope.

I have it locked down to a strict and efficient routine. I will take a spray bottle and set it on wide heavy dispersion. I will sometimes follow the fly into a smaller room if needed, and close the door so it has less room to maneuver. I will then spray the fly, which is easy because of the wide spray setting, and it will be unable to fly while wet. If it gets hit in mid air it will sometimes drop right out of the air. I'll hit it a few more times for good measure and then I will immediately squash it while it's unable to fly away or crawl freely. Then I'll dry and disinfect any spots if needed.

Sometimes really large flies need to be hit several times before they're fully immobilized, but other than that this is an extremely effective way to deal with them quickly and easily. No messing with toxic chemicals, no clumsy attempts to hit them with a fly swatter only to fail, no setting up sticky traps and hoping for them to happen to land on one. Just go and immobilize then kill it as soon as it shows up.

I've spent several seasons doing this and it is the most effective way I have found to deal with them. As soon as they get inside, they are dead. I will run them down, keep them from being able to fly away, and squash them.
 
I`ve lived in Hurghada, Egypt and Ramallah, West Bank with no fridges or electricity sometimes and never got a major bug - just got a bit loose occasionally.
Back in England I once had some not warmed up enough stale rice from a dodgy fast food joint.
I was sick for a week and lost 25lbs - I thought I was a goner - didn`t even want a drip and antibiotics - hospitals are dangerous - especially nowadays.
I am now fastidiously clean in the kitchen and have a hand-held steam cleaner and essential oils to sterilise the benches and wooden chopping boards - no probs.
Worms and parasites in Africa and the Far East are really bad news - you have to boil things for ages and rinse with good bottled or filtered treated water.
I rarely have ice in drinks abroad - being Eastern European I love 120% proof vodka - neat.
 
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Chefget said:
The Hasegawakagaku is my favorite cutting surface. Careful though; they melt like butter with direct heat :oops: šŸ¤£

A solution of 50ppm bleach to water works wonders on surfaces and is industry spec; wipe wet, wait 20 secs, dry with clean cloth. Works with wood or composite. I aways have a 50ppm bleach bucket even in my home kitchen (see pic), required (at least Maryland) in restaurants.

Had a grand butcher block used for many things including pounding veal (aka bacterial inlay by impact); every night scrubbed the block down then made a slurry of coarse salt and mineral oil, rubbed it in well. Next morning came in and brushed the dry salt off the block! Worked for years.

View attachment 2429829
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I love the Belfast sink and the tawashi pan scrubber Chefget - they are both unsurpassed.
 
Dr. Rayeye said:
I doubt that restaurant cleanliness standards are based on scientific studies--just best practice
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Interesting statement. Upon what, then, would best practice be based on? If you're talking about what people tend to do, and the results of them doing that, then you have two possibilities. Either this data is recorded, making it a scientific study (though not necessarily peer reviewed), or it is not recorded, meaning it is just rumor. I actually don't remember the conversation this came from. I'm really just responding to this statement in and of itself. Please correct me if my evaluation was wrong.
 
Restaurant inspectors go from health protocols that mostly get modified when there is an incident somewhere. They are permitted to make exceptions for restaurants with exceptional compliance. Many inspectors have been doing this for decades--so the protocols are well learned by everyone after awhile.
 
There are a few other factors besides just purely bacteria. Many allergens can be easily transferred by surface contact, and so that is something that is worth understanding as well. I worked adjacent to food service when norovirus started becoming a very common thing, and our rules changed in respect to that. It's all a very complex dance of both having enough rules to keep most people safe, and have them understandable, and easy enough to comply with. As with any risk assessment, the "lowest common denominator" rules for someone's first day on the job are going to be very different from someone who's a well-seasoned pro who is thinking about a lot of factors overall, and has the experience to risk assess on the fly.
Also rules are very regional, at most of the restaurants I ate at in Italy, my plates were a different color to denote allergen safety, and when I was in Egypt we ate pretty local, and while almost everyone had a couple of rough days on the trip, none were all that bad. Granted that's a thousand points of minor possible contamination, and everyone on the trip had full vax all around. But when we got back there was a cruise liner quarantined with both the Vid and Noro ripping through the cabins. At least with cholera you can only catch it so often, noro just finishes up and starts the next round if you are exposed. Where I live now, kids are routinely de-wormed just because they are easy to pick up, but they are pretty minor (very different to when I was growing up in the frozen wastes north of the wall where nothing lives) and different from when I was in PNG where hookwork is still endemic and we really didn't want to catch that.
One of the biggest risk factors is someone moving to a new region and not having the "cultural" understanding of why everyone does what they do, because a lot of things can be very local. "The rules may be stupid and arbitrary, but god help you if you break them"
 
Guy McVer said:
I never tolerate even a single fly in my home. [...]
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I'm right there with you on that. Totally disgusting creatures. We have tall ceilings, if I can't get to them, I turn a light on in a small bathroom at night. They will be there in the morning (they supposedly can't fly in total darkness, and like the extra heat), and then they're mine...
 
I cook to try and help two homeless charities in NW England and we adhere to common sense and local Council and National food handling regulations.
Having lived in Ramallah - the West Bank with no electricity or even drinking water in the early eighties in a war-zone all bets are off and we had totally different priorities - like digging wells and avoiding landmines and snipers.
That was a big wake-up call for an English teenager such as myself.
So I totally know the score in Gaza now from first-hand experience.
We are exceptionally busy this winter - times are tumultuous everywhere.
Food - bank use, soup - kitchens and similar organisations have been overwhelmed and swamped ; especially in the last 3-4 years.
With me being fastidiously clean I`ve not seen any serious food poisoning (apart from minor transient diarrhea) since I started 35 years ago - but perhaps I`m just lucky and I will be tested one day - such is life.
 
sodak said:
I'm right there with you on that. Totally disgusting creatures. We have tall ceilings, if I can't get to them, I turn a light on in a small bathroom at night. They will be there in the morning (they supposedly can't fly in total darkness, and like the extra heat), and then they're mine...
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I had a pet chameleon in Hurghada, Egypt and flies and mozzies didn`t stand a chance together with the wall geckos (which hunt at night mostly) and extensive essential oil deterrents - I`m a medical herbalist who can make eo`s with a still if need be.
Being 107 degrees at midnight took some getting used to; that was just night air temperatures.
During the day you couldn`t walk barefoot on sand, stone or concrete because it was 170 degrees plus.
 
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