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Defense against grizzly bear

There have only been a few mountain lion attacks on adults in recent history (most of these in California). It's true that cougars will generally only attack from behind. This is because they are big *****cats
smile.gif
. They have to be very desperate for food (read: starving) to attack an adult. I would take being attacked by one of these chumps over a grizzly any day. A good fight (or stab) would almost certainly send one of these buggers scurrying away.

[This message has been edited by Kumdo (edited 11-08-2000).]
 
PU$$YCAT! PU$$YCAT! PU$$YCAT! PU$$YCAT! PU$$YCAT! PU$$YCAT! PU$$YCAT! PU$$YCAT!

I can't believe they won't let me post such a benign word! :X
 
Look in the archives of the HI forum -- Uncle Bill told the story of the farmer in Nepal who got charged by a bear and split its head open with a khukuri just as it got to him, and it fell dead at his feet.

Barring that, usually only a lot of luck will get you out of an actual grizzly bear attack, not a knife. Awareness and prevention are key -- charges usually happen to people who aren't careful and suprise a bear.

Black bears might be more squeamish than a griz, and easier to fend off, but there are no guarantees with bear behavior. You'll probably just really pi** off a bear if you cut it -- a wounded animal will likely become even more aggressive in its defense.

The old guy in Alaska was downright lucky. Don't know if there's much he could've done to prevent that one.

Polar bears are more dangerous than any other: food is hard to come by in the Arctic, and polar bears regard man as another food item on the menu. Ask the polar bear if she's a knife knut, and if so, hopfully you happen to own (and have on you) her favorite model -- so offer it to him...hee hee... well, she'll probably just take your knife and then eat you anyway...
wink.gif


If you really gotta get a bear off of you, go for its eyes with the point of the blade -- you might at least fare better that way and get her off you. I use "her" because most griz attacks are by a momma protecting her cubs.

The sight of a grizzly bear in the wild (no fence!!!) is awesome to behold, even from a distance. I had the great fortune to see some at Glacier National Park in Montana and luckily not too close -- they are HUGE, and you realize immediately how frail man is compared to them!

Best,

Brian.

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Brian Jones
Co-moderator
Wilderness & Survival Skills Forum
 
A 30 pound bobcat can kill an unarmed man. A cougar is significantly larger.
Kumdo notes that he would rather be attacked by one than a grizzly. Out of the fire and into the frying pan? At least with a grizzly you get some warning, and would probably have to get between a mother and its young.

One interesting solution to protect yourself from a pounce from behind comes from the experience of villagers living near the sunderbands, the largest mangrove forest in the world, bordering India and Bangladesh.

Man-eating tigers kill over 400 people a year in this forest. They also attack from behind.

Nearby villagers have to go into this forest to forage for things like wild honey. They walk single file through the forest, and guess who gets it?
wink.gif
The last guy in line.

Wild-life biologists studying the problem had the villagers wear backwards-facing masks which fooled a lot of the tigers.

If I was walking alone a lot in cougar territory, I would seriously consider getting a cheap, halloween mask and wearing it backwards.
 
Every few years there is a report of a predatory bear attack on a person. What’s kind of neat, in a weird way, is that bears, lions and other predators, when in hunting mode, do not show outward signs of aggression. In other words they don't look or act P.O.ed, no growling, roaring or whatever. For these guys, hunting is just, well, hunting. It’s not about anger; it’s about food. It’s the same attitude we have when we kill our food. Whether it be farm animals, deer or even Big Macs, there is no anger involved when we do it.

So the moral of the story is that if you run into a bear or mountain lion and it appears upset and angry, it’s most likely feeling threatened and just wants out of the situation. Most often everyone goes their separate ways without any blood shed. If the animal appears calm and seems to be following you in a leisurely manner (which has been known to happen for miles in the case of black bears) it’s not because it wants to be your friend. It's probably hunting you.

Playing dead in this situation is just making it easier for the thing feeding on you. Fight back with anything you have including knives. It would be tough to kill a bear or mountain lion with a knife but really all you have to do is persuade it that there is easier food out there. Again, this is only if the thing is trying to make a meal of you. If it is chewing on you because it feels threatened, fighting is only going to make matters worse.

Before anyone gets too freaked, this seldom happens, probably once in every many, many millions of visitor days in bear country. One person visiting one day equals one visitor day. Most cases involve black bears that have tasted human food from garbage dumps and sloppy campsites and have come to associate people with easy food. Who can blame them. Most of use would be a bear's version of fast food.

Switchback


[This message has been edited by switchback (edited 11-08-2000).]
 
I got within about 20 yds of a mountain lion once while backpacking in the Bob Marshall Wilderness. One of the biggest thrills of my life. Saw him come around a bend in the Flathead river. Me and my gal pal had just come out of the river nekkid as jaybirds and totally defenseless. I looked up and the lion had already seen us. He started to whirl and turn away but then changed his mind and passed directly in front of us at roughly 20 yards. I could see the muscles rippling in his body.

Lions are very shy of humans and generally not a danger in the wilderness. They are far more dangerous where civilization encroaches on their territory and drives their food away. The hunger is still there and so mountain lion attacks at these interface areas have increased in recent years.

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Hoodoo

I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
 
i have a ton of respect for bears.dont know why,but the thought of killing deer and elk and other animals doesnt bother me,but i dont think i could ever kill a bear.it would have to be some pretty serious circumstances...
(like when hes chomping on my head...)
 
Yep, when deer go urban, mountain lions, are soon to follow.

I once heard someone suggest we should have wilderness areas with predator-free zones so they can "hike in peace" in "natural" surroundings. Come on
rolleyes.gif


Switchback
 
I had the pleasure of spending a week in Big Bend National Park in southern Texas. The local sheriff there took me and some friends to a mountain lion's den on top of a mesa. As we got to about 500 yards from the den he began explaining that if the cat was home, she might charge us because she had cubs there. He went there all the time, he explained, and when he came by himself, she always would charge him. The crazy old guy would wave his arms and jump around and that usually sent her (and her cubs) running the other way. Once he had to throw rocks at her because she kept coming closer. (The cats weren't home during our visit, but I had the pleasure of stepping in it's poop and checking out the prints, etc.)

I don't think there has never been a reported case of a bobcat killing an adult person. A cat that small would only attack a person as a last ditch effort of self-defense.

As for cougars, I'm still not intimidated. There's a big differnce between African lions and mountain lions, mainly in temperment, but also size. Don't get me wrong- occasionally a jogger gets taken down in an encroaching subdivision. I would bet money that if these blokes knew how to fight, they might get sliced up pretty good, but they'd certainly stop the attack. Better yet, put a big a$$ knife in the mix and it's a done deal.

Thankfully, the chance of being attacked by a mountain lion is so incredibly remote that in my opinion it's a non-issue.

Bears are a slightly different problem- not only as an agressive-defensive attack (protecting young), but also as a hunting mechanism. Don't laugh- many of the grizzly and black bear attacks have been on people sleeping in their tent. Now THAT'S scary to me!

 
Seems to be some contrasting views on the level of danger mountain lions pose. Some will go so far as to wear a human face mask on the back of their head while hiking, and others think that with a knife in hand you should be safe enough. I don't know, I still think 8ft of cat stalking behind me is a very bad thing. Here is some info I found, but it's nothing more than common sense and general facts: http://www.desertusa.com/may96/du_mlion.html

Four or five times in the last month I have heard fairly large sized animals moving through the bushes ahead or behind me while I'm deep into the animal trails. I just thought they were all deer, and they probably were since one of those times I startled a buck just 15ft in front of me and it jumped to its feet and we just stood there staring at each other for a couple seconds. But where there are deer there are mountain lions according to that site. So I'm not too sure about those noises anymore. Actually now that I think about it, the sounds were not like a deer hopping or leaping through the brush, but more like something big crashing through stuff and running with quick steps--not anything like a deer's prance. It almost sounded human. Crap, now I'm scared.
 
FullerH,

Yes indeed we do have bears in Sweden. I think they are quite similar to grizzlies, only smaller.

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Tea drinker and hellraiser from Northern Sweden, above the arctic circle.
 
>>Lions are very shy of humans and generally not a danger in the wilderness.

Animals that attack people, tend to get hunted down and killed. Here is one true story about a person who killed a lion:

So Samson went down to Timnah with his father and mother, and came to the vineyards of Timnah.
Now to his surprise, a young lion came roaring against him. [6] And the Spirit of the Lord came mightily upon him, and he tore the lion apart as one would have torn apart a young goat, though he had nothing in his hand. But he did not tell his father or his mother what he had done. Judges 14:5-6


 
Well, I'm not into tearing young goats apart, so I think I'll just avoid those lions.

Considering that article on the mountain lion, I imagine any good-sized camp knife would be an effective weapon.

I think I'll just avoid the bears altogether. A bunch of us were off on an evening stroll down a path in the woods (upstate NY) and came up on a bear in the bushes just off the path. We took off yelling and running, and so did the bear, the other way, of course.
 
Esav, an East Coast black bear may be a bother and even dangerous but, put next to a grizzly, he's a kittycat. He may run, at best, 600-800 pounds, while the griz will run 1200 or more and the temprament is concommitally nastier.

As to bear spray, there was a very funny story a bit back in Guns & Ammo about an Alaskan fishing guide who carried fishermen up a river in a float plane. He would drop them at a shand bank for a day and then come back for them. As he was dropping one guy off, he noted that the guy had no bear gun and asked about it. The fellow said that he was unwilling to kill one of nature's greatest creatures and had brought some capsicum spray. The guide expressed his reservations, but dropped him off and went on to drop off the others. On his way back, he flew by to check on the felllow and saw him rolling around on the sand bank. The pilot landed and ran over, expecting to find him mauled and bloody. Not so, the idiot had mistakened his bear spray for his mosquito spray!

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Walk in the Light,
Hugh Fuller

[This message has been edited by FullerH (edited 11-09-2000).]
 
best knife i know of is a bushman with a walking stick that fits the knife's socket ala instant spear a much better weapon than just a knife, still no very goo but better that than just the knife.

personally i think a parang / locharbor axe / bush axe or some such would be better

or perhaps a good camp axe.
 
Four or five times in the last month I have heard fairly large sized animals moving through the bushes ahead or behind me while I'm deep into the animal trails. I just thought they were all deer, and they probably were since one of those times I startled a buck just 15ft in front of me and it jumped to its feet and we just stood there staring at each other for a couple seconds. But where there are deer there are mountain lions according to that site. So I'm not too sure about those noises anymore. Actually now that I think about it, the sounds were not like a deer hopping or leaping through the brush, but more like something big crashing through stuff and running with quick steps--not anything like a deer's prance. It almost sounded human. Crap, now I'm scared.
Click to expand...

gen: If you hear noises I very much doubt it is a couger. Even a house cat can move with spookey silence. One wich hunts its food in the wild would be even more stealthy.
 
Bryan,
My thoughts exactly. That is why you can't really defend against a cougar.
The first inkling you have of it's proximity - - if it is hunting you - - is a rather sharp impact from behind.
wink.gif
 
Hmmmm DE .50cal AE? Or a large bore Winchester Magnum.

Oh blade eh! Try a folded steel Katana, or a scot claymore for size. I doubt any knife will stop a grizzly bear, just make him want to eviserate you.

Not many bears in the UK!

W.A.

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"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
Tenneson
Ranger motto
 
Scene II
Camera slowly pans from distant mountains down to trees and focuses on large grizzly bear, me and a knife.
Camera pans back up and the soundtrack fills with sound of grizzly roaring.
Camera pans back down, I am lying down being eaten by the bear which is ignoring the pin prick on its paw.
 
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