Does anyone doubt the ability of the Civilian?
- Thread starter Dirk
- Start date
sorry but to each his own - why would a civvy out cut a SIFU? explain this to me - the serrations can catch on clothing, etc and lessen the severity of the wound - also no stabbing, which many experts (ie rex applegate for 1) hold in much higher regard than slashing - not that they are bad, but IMHO they are not the hottest thing going - i would still take my SIFU over any short blade w/little/no stabbing ability - and again, the heavy blade of the SIFU, which looks kinda like a khukri, should certainly slash well? shouldnt it? if not why not? i got a matriarch, and i like it, but #1 fighting knife around? no same about the gunting - the darned blade is too short IMHO, and again, i would take a SIFU - hey we are talking about my life, and i feel i would be better off w/the sIFU - convince em otherwise ................
vet
vet
- Joined
- Oct 22, 1999
- Messages
- 405
Hey... where can I get a blade THAT sharp?!?!?
- Joined
- Mar 19, 1999
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- 2,277
Vet, I don't think I can change your mind and I'm actually not going to try. The whole concept with the Civilian was a back up defensive tool. The intent was never there for it to be capable of getting into vital organs. It was meant for a slash and run type of scenario. I have been playing with my Civilian and I haven't encountered any problem with the serrations snagging on any type of clothing.
Civilian - great knife
SIFU - great knife.
You can't claim one is better than the other. Each has it's strengths and weakness.
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If ignorance is bliss,
why aren't more people happy?
Civilian - great knife
SIFU - great knife.
You can't claim one is better than the other. Each has it's strengths and weakness.
------------------
If ignorance is bliss,
why aren't more people happy?
hey dont get me wrong - have a matrtiarch and carry it all the time - BUT - IMHO surface wounds may offer a detterence but a serious fighting knife needs enough blade length, and a stabbing ability, to penetrate to vital organs-and slashing ability too - same principle which applies to fighting handguns, a deep wound channel - just my .02 worth......
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2001
- Messages
- 1,015
Vet95LT1,
I am just wondering why it would be good to create a deep wound channel or penetrate vital organs? I don´t believe that it will stop a person from doing harm. I am not taking sides on the issue Sifu vs Civilian, just trying to understand the practical implications of trying to hit areas on the body which doesn´t hinder function. If you stab someone in the heart that person (properly motivated etc.) can function up to 12 seconds (according to Massad Ayoob if I remember it correctly) before the oxygen in the brain is used up.
If you don´t cut muscles, tendons or big nerves (like the base of the neck or between the 3:rd and 4:th vertebra in the back) then you probably end up with a really mad BG trying to get you. I just believe it´s better to take away the BG:s different options to attack you. One way to do this is to by taking away the function of hands, arms and/or legs depending on the situation at hand.
And if you are talking combat in war I would believe that the above applies also, only difference would be that you do a final killing cut.
I think that both the Civilian and the Sifu would work. The Sifu does have more options because of the ability to stab.
/Colinz
I am just wondering why it would be good to create a deep wound channel or penetrate vital organs? I don´t believe that it will stop a person from doing harm. I am not taking sides on the issue Sifu vs Civilian, just trying to understand the practical implications of trying to hit areas on the body which doesn´t hinder function. If you stab someone in the heart that person (properly motivated etc.) can function up to 12 seconds (according to Massad Ayoob if I remember it correctly) before the oxygen in the brain is used up.
If you don´t cut muscles, tendons or big nerves (like the base of the neck or between the 3:rd and 4:th vertebra in the back) then you probably end up with a really mad BG trying to get you. I just believe it´s better to take away the BG:s different options to attack you. One way to do this is to by taking away the function of hands, arms and/or legs depending on the situation at hand.
And if you are talking combat in war I would believe that the above applies also, only difference would be that you do a final killing cut.
I think that both the Civilian and the Sifu would work. The Sifu does have more options because of the ability to stab.
/Colinz
- Joined
- May 1, 2000
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- 2,258
Colinz - while much of what you said makes sense, I just have to ask -
Do you really need to ask this question?
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Jason aka medusaoblongata
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"Is not giving a need? Is not receiving mercy?" - Thus Spoke Zarathustra
"Cutting his throat is only a momentary pleasure and is bound to get you talked about." - Lazarus Long
"Knowledge is not made for understanding; it is made for cutting." - Michel Foucault
Do you really need to ask this question?
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Jason aka medusaoblongata
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"Is not giving a need? Is not receiving mercy?" - Thus Spoke Zarathustra
"Cutting his throat is only a momentary pleasure and is bound to get you talked about." - Lazarus Long
"Knowledge is not made for understanding; it is made for cutting." - Michel Foucault
well bud, uh i would wanna penetrate to vital organs, if, in the unlikely event i didnt have my glock 32 or 33, or the kel tec 32 backup i carry along w/a glock, or they broke, etc, and i had to go to backup #3, a SIFU, with the intent of killing the person - I would never pull a gun/knife on anyone unless i was legally justified in doing so, and was forced into it but once that unlikely scenario occurs, i want to penetrate to vital organs and to stop the BG ASAP- ya you might go a little bit ( a few seconds) w/a fatal heart wound, but how long would ya go w/a slash (even a bad 1) to the arm - still would go w/SIFU (hey guys i carried my matriarch TOO today if that counts for anything lol)
my whole point being i dont think any knife (or really gun too, as long as high quality) can be called the 'best' at anything - sure the mat and civvy are cool, and they will cut the heck out of ya, but so will a lot of other knives - its kinda like getting into the stopping power debate, 9MM vs .45 - everyone has an opinion, and no one is really wrong - either 1 will do the job, if applied correctly IMHO
vet
my whole point being i dont think any knife (or really gun too, as long as high quality) can be called the 'best' at anything - sure the mat and civvy are cool, and they will cut the heck out of ya, but so will a lot of other knives - its kinda like getting into the stopping power debate, 9MM vs .45 - everyone has an opinion, and no one is really wrong - either 1 will do the job, if applied correctly IMHO
vet
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2001
- Messages
- 1,015
Oh no (I hate when this happens).
I´ve gotten myself involved in one of those dicussions on semantics. Sorry about that. I thought that vital organs only meant the liver, kidneys, heart, lungs, etc.
medusaoblongata,
Vital organs misunderstanding, sorry. "Deep wound channel" is a very subjective phrase, didn´t think of that.
Vet95LT1,
I agree with you somewhat but I still think that that one (preferably both) disabled arms are better than one stab at the heart. If the BG can get to you now it doesn´t really matter if he dies later.
Well, my post earlier must have been the worst one I´ve written so far. I can only promise that I will keep up the work on my communication skills.
/Colinz
I´ve gotten myself involved in one of those dicussions on semantics. Sorry about that. I thought that vital organs only meant the liver, kidneys, heart, lungs, etc.
medusaoblongata,
Vital organs misunderstanding, sorry. "Deep wound channel" is a very subjective phrase, didn´t think of that.
Vet95LT1,
I agree with you somewhat but I still think that that one (preferably both) disabled arms are better than one stab at the heart. If the BG can get to you now it doesn´t really matter if he dies later.
Well, my post earlier must have been the worst one I´ve written so far. I can only promise that I will keep up the work on my communication skills.
/Colinz
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2000
- Messages
- 226
Never having to be in such a scenario I believe the matriarch would be excellent for defensive purposes. Some BG grabs your arm you neatly sever the tendons and make a run for it. And of course there is the intimidation factor
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It hurts to be on the cutting edge.
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It hurts to be on the cutting edge.
Hi all!
Just wanted to say something about deep wound channels etc.
For me, in a self-defense situation, i'd be satisfied if the threat was disabled.
Stabbing people would make'em dead very much easier then cutting'em.
I'm sure that a (good) hit to someone's arm would cut it to the bone, that arm isn't going to do you harm = a window frame for you to get out.
Which is all i want to do (get out).
I'll probably say that the BG deserves to be dead 'cuz he jumped/attacked me, but in reality i don't care what he deserves, i just want to be out of there.
Just my 20 cents
now i'm ready for some flak, got kevlar...
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Be well!/Jonas aka 2Sharp
"Who want fulfillment? -denial lasts forever"
Total Emerson knives freak!!! Usual Suspect wanna-be...
The coolest bar in the world: http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Camp/8373/index.html
My knives!
Just wanted to say something about deep wound channels etc.
For me, in a self-defense situation, i'd be satisfied if the threat was disabled.
Stabbing people would make'em dead very much easier then cutting'em.
I'm sure that a (good) hit to someone's arm would cut it to the bone, that arm isn't going to do you harm = a window frame for you to get out.
Which is all i want to do (get out).
I'll probably say that the BG deserves to be dead 'cuz he jumped/attacked me, but in reality i don't care what he deserves, i just want to be out of there.
Just my 20 cents
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Be well!/Jonas aka 2Sharp
"Who want fulfillment? -denial lasts forever"
Total Emerson knives freak!!! Usual Suspect wanna-be...
The coolest bar in the world: http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Camp/8373/index.html
My knives!