You've delayed shipment on my order and have the nerve to tell me that you don't like the tenor of my Email? All I did was ask for a refund of my twelve bucks that you charged for 2nd day air. You didn't provide the service but refuse to own up to your own error. I guess that I was supposed to kiss your butt and tell you what a nice guy that you were to take my twelve dollars and ship the product on a slow boat... Thanks for nothing!!!
-
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Doom On You - Knife Outlet
- Thread starter bootey
- Start date
I would be a little put off a little myself Booty, if they charged me for a two day service, and you didn't get in that time period. You have every right ot complain to them, but it should be done in a nice way, because I'm sure they had every intentions of honoring that agreement. It must have been the mails fault, but in any case you should be refunded back that money it cost you. If asking them nicely doesn't work... Well, then I would probably get a little loud myself.
You sound very hostile right now, so cool down, and let things calm down, and try again another day.
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BC... For those who fought for it, Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know... Semper Fi
[This message has been edited by narruc1 (edited 01-04-2001).]
[This message has been edited by narruc1 (edited 01-04-2001).]
You sound very hostile right now, so cool down, and let things calm down, and try again another day.
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[This message has been edited by narruc1 (edited 01-04-2001).]
[This message has been edited by narruc1 (edited 01-04-2001).]
- Joined
- Jan 4, 1999
- Messages
- 3,000
Mr. Boots:
You didn't mention that I explained that we had made a mistake and we had provided a refund for the difference between second day air and ground. You just decided to beat up on us as rudely here as you did in your email. I can't change what we did. It was an error. It is a good thing you never make mistakes so that you don't have to be subjected to behavior like yours. Please stay away from our web site and my email inbox. Your business is not welcome in our company. As tempting as it is, I'll refrain from posting your email to this thread. I'd rather be done with you. Best of luck to you.
------------------
Fred
Knife Outlet
http://www.knifeoutlet.com
You didn't mention that I explained that we had made a mistake and we had provided a refund for the difference between second day air and ground. You just decided to beat up on us as rudely here as you did in your email. I can't change what we did. It was an error. It is a good thing you never make mistakes so that you don't have to be subjected to behavior like yours. Please stay away from our web site and my email inbox. Your business is not welcome in our company. As tempting as it is, I'll refrain from posting your email to this thread. I'd rather be done with you. Best of luck to you.
------------------
Fred
Knife Outlet
http://www.knifeoutlet.com
bob_glassman
Banned
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2000
- Messages
- 414
Why don't some of you guys try being an internet knife dealer and see how it feels.
I for one have, and it ain't worth it:
So, I am getting out. If you want to buy my remaining inventory, make me an offer.
------------------
Bob Glassman
The Bustling Bladesmith
http://home.earthlink.net/~theglassmans
http://thebustlingbladesmith.com
I for one have, and it ain't worth it:
So, I am getting out. If you want to buy my remaining inventory, make me an offer.
------------------
Bob Glassman
The Bustling Bladesmith
http://home.earthlink.net/~theglassmans
http://thebustlingbladesmith.com
I'm not taking sides, and I beleive that you probably have a valid complaint. I'd also like to offer a differing of opinion. I want to thank Knife Outlet for busting their butts and getting my extremely late Christmas order out quickly (I placed the order very close to Christmas). The package arrived as promised and my Dad is enjoying his Christmas presents. Thanks to Knife Outlet for bailing me out. I can't wait to get that Satin Plain Edge Commander from you guys!!
[This message has been edited by CCM (edited 01-04-2001).]
[This message has been edited by CCM (edited 01-04-2001).]
[This message has been edited by CCM (edited 01-04-2001).]
[This message has been edited by CCM (edited 01-04-2001).]
- Joined
- Dec 1, 1999
- Messages
- 452
Bootey,
Welcome to Bladeforums!
I hope that you stay and that your disposition improves.
By the way, Fred has a very good rep around here. From what I've read, he can be a little gruff at times though. If your email was like your post, I think I may have been more than gruff.
Have a nice day!
Jim McCullough
------------------
Next time you feel your life is sooo tough, read this- Some American Heroes
Welcome to Bladeforums!
I hope that you stay and that your disposition improves.
By the way, Fred has a very good rep around here. From what I've read, he can be a little gruff at times though. If your email was like your post, I think I may have been more than gruff.
Have a nice day!
Jim McCullough
------------------
Next time you feel your life is sooo tough, read this- Some American Heroes
FYI -- Here's the reply and the original Email. I do not have a problem avoiding Knife Outlet when purchasing on the internet.. Have you noticed how many E-trade dealers there are??
Normally I would but, given the tone and tenor of your email, I just refunded the $7 difference between 2 day and ground. Perhaps your next dealer, like yourself will be free from errors. Good evening.
Fred
Knife Outlet
http://www.knifeoutlet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Boots
To: webmarketing@kconline.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 7:35 PM
Subject: Poor Service - Order # 0017774
Gentlemen:
I'll try to keep this short and to the point. I placed order # 0017774 on Dec. 31, 2000. It's now Jan. 3 and I've just received the following notice from UPS:
The shipment was sent on 2001-01-03 by:
SPECIALTY WEB MARKETING
66400, OAK, RD
LAKEVILLE, IN, 46536, 9464, US,
and is scheduled for delivery on 2001-01-08.
Message: KNIFE OUTLET
Additional Detail:
UPS Service Level: GROUND
Shipment Weight: 1.00 LBS
Please notice that the service level is GROUND. I asked for and was charged for SECOND DAY AIR. I was charged $12.00. Please refund the entire $12.00 charge. I did not receive the service that I was charged for!! I have been greatly inconvenienced by your lack of prompt and correct service...
Sincerely, William Boots.. bootey@home.com
Normally I would but, given the tone and tenor of your email, I just refunded the $7 difference between 2 day and ground. Perhaps your next dealer, like yourself will be free from errors. Good evening.
Fred
Knife Outlet
http://www.knifeoutlet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Boots
To: webmarketing@kconline.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 7:35 PM
Subject: Poor Service - Order # 0017774
Gentlemen:
I'll try to keep this short and to the point. I placed order # 0017774 on Dec. 31, 2000. It's now Jan. 3 and I've just received the following notice from UPS:
The shipment was sent on 2001-01-03 by:
SPECIALTY WEB MARKETING
66400, OAK, RD
LAKEVILLE, IN, 46536, 9464, US,
and is scheduled for delivery on 2001-01-08.
Message: KNIFE OUTLET
Additional Detail:
UPS Service Level: GROUND
Shipment Weight: 1.00 LBS
Please notice that the service level is GROUND. I asked for and was charged for SECOND DAY AIR. I was charged $12.00. Please refund the entire $12.00 charge. I did not receive the service that I was charged for!! I have been greatly inconvenienced by your lack of prompt and correct service...
Sincerely, William Boots.. bootey@home.com
- Joined
- Jan 4, 1999
- Messages
- 3,000
Boots:
The one thing you proved by the inappropriate post of private emails was that you knew you had the shipping refund prior to trashing us here. When we make an error like that we usually refund the shipping charge completely. In your case we refunded the difference between the two charges because it was the least we could do and still be fair. Doing the least we could do was my choice in your case. I realize you're baiting me to post the rest of your email so you can continue the fight but I won't stoop to your level. Posting private emails in a forum is a no-no in my opinion and I won't do it. I've had my fill of this. I'm outta here. Trash away. Take care.
[This message has been edited by Knife Outlet (edited 01-05-2001).]
The one thing you proved by the inappropriate post of private emails was that you knew you had the shipping refund prior to trashing us here. When we make an error like that we usually refund the shipping charge completely. In your case we refunded the difference between the two charges because it was the least we could do and still be fair. Doing the least we could do was my choice in your case. I realize you're baiting me to post the rest of your email so you can continue the fight but I won't stoop to your level. Posting private emails in a forum is a no-no in my opinion and I won't do it. I've had my fill of this. I'm outta here. Trash away. Take care.
[This message has been edited by Knife Outlet (edited 01-05-2001).]
- Joined
- Nov 6, 1999
- Messages
- 2,639
I'm on Knife Outlet's side. Bootey was charged for the service he recieved. He is Not entitled to FREE shipping, although in Fred's email he said that normally he would have refunded the entire shipping charge.
Posting private emails is generally frowned upon at BFC. Private meane PRIVATE. However, sometimes it seems necessary to prove your point. If you Must post private email, you have an Obligation to post the Whole darned thing. Apparently you only posted a Portion of your email to Fred. That is Not Fair. Knowing that there was More to your email than you have disclosed makes me much less inclined to take your argument seriously.
Fred, kudos for not stooping to ptooey's level. Bootey, you have Not been injured. A mistake was made, acknowledged, and compensated. You will not earn any brownie points around here for using the GBU forum for something as trivial as your complaint.
Paracelsus
Posting private emails is generally frowned upon at BFC. Private meane PRIVATE. However, sometimes it seems necessary to prove your point. If you Must post private email, you have an Obligation to post the Whole darned thing. Apparently you only posted a Portion of your email to Fred. That is Not Fair. Knowing that there was More to your email than you have disclosed makes me much less inclined to take your argument seriously.
Fred, kudos for not stooping to ptooey's level. Bootey, you have Not been injured. A mistake was made, acknowledged, and compensated. You will not earn any brownie points around here for using the GBU forum for something as trivial as your complaint.
Paracelsus
In my last dealing with Knife Outlet, they accidently shipped me a tough cloth instead of shipping me the 8oz bottle of tuf glide. I called them and they said keep the cloth free of charge and they sent me the bottle muy pronto.
Mistakes are made all the time but it's what they do afterwards that counts. KO's service was exemplary. Just because people make honest mistakes does not mean you have the right to be rude to them. KO's reputation has always been excellent and no doubt will continue to be. But if you are rude to people, why would you expect them to go out of the way for you. KO are people just like anyone else. Be nice to them and they will be nice to you.
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Hoodoo
I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
Mistakes are made all the time but it's what they do afterwards that counts. KO's service was exemplary. Just because people make honest mistakes does not mean you have the right to be rude to them. KO's reputation has always been excellent and no doubt will continue to be. But if you are rude to people, why would you expect them to go out of the way for you. KO are people just like anyone else. Be nice to them and they will be nice to you.
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Hoodoo
I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
It looks like bootey only joined 1/3 to complain about Knife Outlet.
A mistake in shipping doesn't seem like enuff to try and hurt someones business.
I thought this forum was for more serious things like dishonesty, misrepresentation and stealing?
Bootey seems more like a troll.
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Rick Gray - Left Handers Unite
A mistake in shipping doesn't seem like enuff to try and hurt someones business.
I thought this forum was for more serious things like dishonesty, misrepresentation and stealing?
Bootey seems more like a troll.
------------------
Rick Gray - Left Handers Unite
- Joined
- Nov 6, 1999
- Messages
- 2,639
Oh, just a suggestion of course, but I think "Doom on You" is a rather ineffective curse. It might work, but it doesn't look like it is going to this time. I could help out with a proper spell, but it will cost you...
Paracelsus, playing around with Wyrds
Paracelsus, playing around with Wyrds
Cougar Allen
Buccaneer (ret.)
- Joined
- Oct 9, 1998
- Messages
- 73,696
It sounds a little stronger in Vietnamese....
-Cougar :{)
-Cougar :{)
One of the few positives of the whole "trial by internet" process is that impartial observers -- like me, for instance, knowing neither party and never having ordered from KO -- can judge the situation based purely on how each of the parties present themselves.
In this case, I'd have to say that the folks at the Knife Outlet appear calm and professional, while their attacker comes across as a bit hot-headed.
The first rule of getting good customer service is to be polite when inquiring about your order. People who are attacked will become defensive, at the very least. That helps no one.
Razor
In this case, I'd have to say that the folks at the Knife Outlet appear calm and professional, while their attacker comes across as a bit hot-headed.
The first rule of getting good customer service is to be polite when inquiring about your order. People who are attacked will become defensive, at the very least. That helps no one.
Razor
Bootey is to be credited with dragging me out of lurker status on this forum.
In the last 2 years Knife Outlet (Fred) has answered my newbie questions with long emails on everything I asked about, called if he thought I was ordering something sight unseen that I wouldnt be pleased with (and was right), advised if Id asked for priority shipment on something that wasnt in stock and administered my Spyderco collectors club purchases with a degree of personal attention that was nothing short of amazing.
It doesnt get any better. Of course, humans make mistakes occasionally and how we deal with it says a lot. Fred, in my experience, is as good as it gets.
Being a strident, whining, vitriolic, short-tempered, narrow-minded, childish, unforgiving, indiscreet, impatient individual probably doesnt bring out the best in Fred, especially over the holiday season. Course this is only my opinion, I could be wrong, YMMV, etc.
On the other hand, being from North Texas myself, I have to sympathize with anyone from Flower Mound around the end of the year the traffic would make a saint cranky. Too bad, if you had presented the problem a little differently, I think you would have gotten the entire freight credited rather than just the difference. Like Fred said, refunding the difference is the least he could do, and the least is all you deserve, IMHO.
But, like Fred says, take it and march elsewhere you will not be missed. There are a number of good net dealers which you may get a less colorful first impression of.
Good luck, where ever you wind up and welcome to the forums.
From Grand Prairie,
Jim
In the last 2 years Knife Outlet (Fred) has answered my newbie questions with long emails on everything I asked about, called if he thought I was ordering something sight unseen that I wouldnt be pleased with (and was right), advised if Id asked for priority shipment on something that wasnt in stock and administered my Spyderco collectors club purchases with a degree of personal attention that was nothing short of amazing.
It doesnt get any better. Of course, humans make mistakes occasionally and how we deal with it says a lot. Fred, in my experience, is as good as it gets.
Being a strident, whining, vitriolic, short-tempered, narrow-minded, childish, unforgiving, indiscreet, impatient individual probably doesnt bring out the best in Fred, especially over the holiday season. Course this is only my opinion, I could be wrong, YMMV, etc.
On the other hand, being from North Texas myself, I have to sympathize with anyone from Flower Mound around the end of the year the traffic would make a saint cranky. Too bad, if you had presented the problem a little differently, I think you would have gotten the entire freight credited rather than just the difference. Like Fred said, refunding the difference is the least he could do, and the least is all you deserve, IMHO.
But, like Fred says, take it and march elsewhere you will not be missed. There are a number of good net dealers which you may get a less colorful first impression of.
Good luck, where ever you wind up and welcome to the forums.
From Grand Prairie,
Jim
- Joined
- Jan 19, 1999
- Messages
- 842
Mr Boot:
Just a couple of cents from a, sort of, competitor of Fred's. (I'm a brick & mortar, not a 'net dealer so I don't have the same market he does)
Of ALL the 'net dealers to pick a fight with, you definitely made the wrong call here.
You're right about one thing, there are a LOT of E-trade dealers out there and Fred is, without a doubt, the most respected and reliable of the bunch. That isn't a slight on the others out there but someone has to be at the top and he has that spot.
No one is immune to errors and mistakes. We all make them from time to time and do our best to make them right when brought to our attention. Again, Fred has one of the lowest error rates and is meticulous about corrections but no one is perfect.
Bob Glassman has a point, although I'm sorry to see him giving up. There are some folks out there who are extremely demanding and difficult to deal with. They seem to expect net dealers to sell them Benchmade, Buck and Spydercos at Pakistani prices and provide 5 star service at Motel 6 rates.
When that doesn't pan out, or someone stumbles a bit, they are right there, spring-loaded, ready to jump, screaming and yelling, pointing, cursing and condemning. This has been known to happen even when the mistake turns out to be the customer's. (wrong address given, bad CC number, things like that.) It doesn't seem to matter. It's as if they are expecting to get "ripped off" when they call and, when something happens, well, they just knew it. It's "See, I told ya. The guy's a crook." No wonder Bob is packing it in. (It's also one of the reasons why I haven't been rushing to get my website up.)
It takes little, or no courage to sit behind a keyboard several hundred miles away and berate an individual in public. I'm sure this promotes the lack of courtesy and deficiencies in social skills that often surface in these types of instances. (It's a bit different when the object of one's vitriole is within arm's reach.)
Fortunately, these people comprise a minor portion of the market and most folks are pleasant to deal with.
In my store, I have had no problems like that at all. Maybe that's because most of my business is face-to-face, but I like to think that it's because of the quality of my clientel.
The business dealings that I have had with all of the Forumites, in person, via phone or e-mail, to date, have all been pleasurable experiences with no problems or confrontations whatsoever. I consider myself extremely lucky in that respect.
Finally, publishing private e-mail, especially an edited version, such as yours, is in extremely bad form. You shouldn't have done that. By doing so, along with your other actions, you seem to have placed yourself into the minority category, as described above. In light of that and, given the tenor of your actions when dealing with vendors from afar, and to keep my perspective in line, my disposition level and record intact, if you should someday get the urge to patronize my establishment via internet, e-mail or phone, I would appreciate it greatly if you would make a strong effort to resist that urge.
Thank you.
BTW, welcome to the Forums. I'm sure that, when you re-examine your priorities, gain a bit of maturity, and understand what we are all about here, you will find this place to be entertaining, enjoyable and educational.
------------------
Dennis Wright
Wright Knife & Sporting Goods
La Mesa, CA
1-800-400-1980
wrightknife@ixpres.com
("Have a knife day!")
[This message has been edited by Dennis Wright (edited 01-06-2001).]
[This message has been edited by Dennis Wright (edited 01-06-2001).]
Just a couple of cents from a, sort of, competitor of Fred's. (I'm a brick & mortar, not a 'net dealer so I don't have the same market he does)
Of ALL the 'net dealers to pick a fight with, you definitely made the wrong call here.
You're right about one thing, there are a LOT of E-trade dealers out there and Fred is, without a doubt, the most respected and reliable of the bunch. That isn't a slight on the others out there but someone has to be at the top and he has that spot.
No one is immune to errors and mistakes. We all make them from time to time and do our best to make them right when brought to our attention. Again, Fred has one of the lowest error rates and is meticulous about corrections but no one is perfect.
Bob Glassman has a point, although I'm sorry to see him giving up. There are some folks out there who are extremely demanding and difficult to deal with. They seem to expect net dealers to sell them Benchmade, Buck and Spydercos at Pakistani prices and provide 5 star service at Motel 6 rates.
When that doesn't pan out, or someone stumbles a bit, they are right there, spring-loaded, ready to jump, screaming and yelling, pointing, cursing and condemning. This has been known to happen even when the mistake turns out to be the customer's. (wrong address given, bad CC number, things like that.) It doesn't seem to matter. It's as if they are expecting to get "ripped off" when they call and, when something happens, well, they just knew it. It's "See, I told ya. The guy's a crook." No wonder Bob is packing it in. (It's also one of the reasons why I haven't been rushing to get my website up.)
It takes little, or no courage to sit behind a keyboard several hundred miles away and berate an individual in public. I'm sure this promotes the lack of courtesy and deficiencies in social skills that often surface in these types of instances. (It's a bit different when the object of one's vitriole is within arm's reach.)
Fortunately, these people comprise a minor portion of the market and most folks are pleasant to deal with.
In my store, I have had no problems like that at all. Maybe that's because most of my business is face-to-face, but I like to think that it's because of the quality of my clientel.
The business dealings that I have had with all of the Forumites, in person, via phone or e-mail, to date, have all been pleasurable experiences with no problems or confrontations whatsoever. I consider myself extremely lucky in that respect.
Finally, publishing private e-mail, especially an edited version, such as yours, is in extremely bad form. You shouldn't have done that. By doing so, along with your other actions, you seem to have placed yourself into the minority category, as described above. In light of that and, given the tenor of your actions when dealing with vendors from afar, and to keep my perspective in line, my disposition level and record intact, if you should someday get the urge to patronize my establishment via internet, e-mail or phone, I would appreciate it greatly if you would make a strong effort to resist that urge.
Thank you.
BTW, welcome to the Forums. I'm sure that, when you re-examine your priorities, gain a bit of maturity, and understand what we are all about here, you will find this place to be entertaining, enjoyable and educational.
------------------
Dennis Wright
Wright Knife & Sporting Goods
La Mesa, CA
1-800-400-1980
wrightknife@ixpres.com
("Have a knife day!")
[This message has been edited by Dennis Wright (edited 01-06-2001).]
[This message has been edited by Dennis Wright (edited 01-06-2001).]
Blah Blah blah...Wah wah wah.......
Fred seems to be nothing but a professional to me and a man of good business sense.
Mistakes happen......so let's move on....
I second your comments Dennis....very well said.
CYA at the SHOTSHOW Fred..would like to meet you.
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Knives & Things
Mike Payne
Fred seems to be nothing but a professional to me and a man of good business sense.
Mistakes happen......so let's move on....
I second your comments Dennis....very well said.
CYA at the SHOTSHOW Fred..would like to meet you.
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Knives & Things
Mike Payne