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Edge Pro Stone Advice

Discussion in 'Maintenance, Tinkering & Embellishment' started by Kobuk, Jan 13, 2021 at 2:43 PM.

  1. Kobuk

    Kobuk

    6
    Tuesday
    Hello blade forum. I have lurked about for years and have learned a lot from you guys. One of the things I have learned is that most of you are on a whole other level with sharpening so if you would please be easy on my first post! haha

    My question has to do with my using my Edge Pro Apex and stones for sharpening my harder steel knives like M390 S30v and Elmax. It sounds like using diamond stones would help. These are hunting and pocket knives and I don't believe I want a super high polish, just a nice toothy edge. Being that the diamond stones are expensive, are there a couple ones that you would recomend that I could get away with for this type of edge? I'm not up on all of the acronyms that keep flying around so that has made my search a little more difficult. Thank you for your help and all of the advice over the years!
     
  2. ekastanis

    ekastanis

    81
    Jan 16, 2018
    CKTG sells their Edge Pro format diamond plates for about $20/ea. They have 80, 140, 400 & 1000 grit. I've used the middle two to reprofile and put a nice aggressive edge on a Police 4 K390. I think there are a few other forum members who would recommend these as well.
     
  3. jjg6319

    jjg6319

    156
    Dec 19, 2011
    Welcome to the site!!

    You might want to read through this thread as it covers the EP Diamond Matrix stones.

    https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/edge-pro-matrix-resin-bond-diamond-stones.1590536/

    It is very informative and I think you would enjoy it. You might want to try the 250 and 650 to start. The 250 would help to profile the edge if the original grind is not consistent and the 650 would still be a little toothy edge.

    @Diemaker is a member here and I expect he would chime in soon as well.

    If you want to save a little money you could probably forego the lowest grit and highest grit stones as stated in the linked thread. The others would be something to consider for your steels.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2021 at 6:41 PM
    Diemaker likes this.
  4. maximus83

    maximus83 Basic Member Basic Member

    Nov 7, 2011
    It's a good question and while not new to sharpening, I'm a new Edge Pro sharpener like you. I have all those those steels you mention with high vanadium carbide content, so I had the same question as you. As I got my Edge Pro kit at Gritomatic, I looked at 4 different options he sells there for Edge Pro, all of which are good for sharpening these steels and all at times have been reviewed or discussed here in the forums.

    Here are the ones I checked out from lowest cost to highest:

    1. The EP 'basic diamond' set of 3 stones, $28. This actually gets really good feedback, though I didn't try it, but maybe a good budget option if someone wants to sharpen with diamonds but not spend a ton.
    2. Venev Orion diamonds. This is the set that I got, quite happy with it so far. These are probably the ones I'd recommend to start with if trying to keep budget from getting too crazy but want good results. Unfortunately, it looks like they're completely sold out at the moment! :-(
    3. Diamond Matrix stones. Get a ton of great feedback here in the forums, as you can see even recent threads on them.
    4. CBN metallic bonded stones. A new offering, very expensive, but has the advantage of being able to sharpen dry, with minimal wear and loading of the stone. I am investigating maybe getting one or two of these to test.

    If you had just one set to get started with your higher VC knife steels, and if on a tight budget, maybe I'd checkout that basic diamond set. If you can go a little higher, you might check out the Venevs when back in stock, or the Diamond Matrix. If it's not an option to get a full 5-stone set, I would emphasize getting a couple of lower grit stones to start, say if you can find Venevs in stock, start with the 150 and 400, or the 240 and 800. Similar if you go for Diamond Matrix (which look like they are in stock), could start with the 250 and then the 650 as a medium grit. With those 2 stones from either the Venevs or Diamond Matrix, you could sharpen all your VC steels to shaving sharp, and then add a strop with say 1 micron CBN compound. That would easily be enough to get started.
     
  5. Old Biker

    Old Biker

    805
    Sep 25, 2016
    I use the Chefs knives To Go (CKTG) diamond plates that ekastanis mentioned. I have the 140, 400, and 1000 grit stones. I like them. The 1000 grit is about 15 microns. I can see no need for the 80 grit. The 140 cuts plenty aggressive enough.

    O.B.
     
  6. Kobuk

    Kobuk

    6
    Tuesday
    Well thanks for all of the responses. I’ll look again in the morning and see what’s available. I think that I’ll just start with two stones and also I need to either replace my stock 120 or buy a refinishing kit. Anyone else have about 10 or so sharpening systems? Haha.
     
  7. sickpuppy1

    sickpuppy1 Gold Member Gold Member

    757
    Sep 27, 2018
    Remember too, you can get a lot of stones from EP themselves, and stocking is better.
     
    Diemaker likes this.
  8. Diemaker

    Diemaker KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    662
    Apr 28, 2017
    If you are interested in the Matrix stones I would suggest starting with the 250 then the 650 which will start to refine the apex nicely but still leave a pretty toothy edge. If you are going to do any reprofiling or heavy sharpening you will want a coarser stone as the 250 is really the grit above those tasks, but if you have enough patience it will do it. The Matrix 80 isn't too coarse to start with and is coarse enough to set your bevel quickly, it just depends on how dull you let your knives get or how big your bevels are. After that you should only need 10 strokes per 3" of blade per side per grit as long as your technique is good and you stay with the Matrix stones.

    If you are new to diamond stones then do use much less pressure when sharpening. How much pressure depends on a lot of things but if it's a very small bevel, as in very little contact area, then just the weight of the stone arm is enough if the diamonds are good. Diamonds are the hardest abrasive there is and if good they are flat out the sharpest so they will cut just fine with almost no pressure. One of the advantages of resin bond stones is if/when you find out what too much pressure is you can dress them and they are as good as new. The advantage to plated diamonds is it is the most aggressive bond there is but if you take too much advantage of that you can toast the stone quickly.
     
  9. Kobuk

    Kobuk

    6
    Tuesday
    Wow, it would sure be nice if the grit numbers between manufactures would have the same meaning or rating or micron.
     
    Diemaker likes this.
  10. Diemaker

    Diemaker KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    662
    Apr 28, 2017
    I agree and wish the micron rating was universally used but the bond makes as much of a difference or more than the abrasive size so don't put too much meaning into the grit numbers. Also with diamond there is a large range of quality you can choose from when buying the powder so that is another variable. The high end stuff is consistent blocky crystals, the cheap stuff is composed of crystals of many different shapes and looks more like beach sand.
     
  11. maximus83

    maximus83 Basic Member Basic Member

    Nov 7, 2011
  12. Kobuk

    Kobuk

    6
    Tuesday
    So am I reading this correctly, using the 600 Diamond matrix stone will be the same finish as the stock 320 stone? Actually even more coarse? I'm getting ready to order a couple diamond matrix stones and was hoping to get by with the 250 and 650. This will be for my harder steel hunting knives (m390 and Elmax)) and my edc pocket knives (S30v and m390). i want a sharp toothy durable edge that will last through several animals between sharpening. I read something here stating that with the high carbide blades, a more toothy apex seems to be more durable.
     
  13. jjg6319

    jjg6319

    156
    Dec 19, 2011
    I believe you are correct that the 600 DM will be close to a stock EP 320 based on the chart referenced above. I agree this should give you a toothy edge. Let us know how it works out for you.
     
  14. sickpuppy1

    sickpuppy1 Gold Member Gold Member

    757
    Sep 27, 2018
    I'd have to disagree with that to an extent. Simply because while it will move more metal if pressed, I can get a nice smooth finish when lightly used, Yes, it can leave a nice toothy edge, but it will have a smoother finish than any 3-500 stone I've ever used, appearance wise.Small scratch pattern.
     
  15. Kobuk

    Kobuk

    6
    Tuesday
    I guess I’ll start with the two and do some testing on what will work best for me. I don’t have a way really to simulate skinning a thick skinned animal but maybe cutting meat would do the trick. I’m not new to sharpening and have more stones and different sharpeners than one person should but it seems that the more I learn the more I don’t know and need to learn! If that makes any sense. It appears that a lot of guys are all about these beautiful highly polished edges to show off their artwork but I’m more of a user and don’t really care how my knife looks as much as perform. I guess that’s why I try and buy good quality knives that hopefully work well for me. No knock on the high finished knives, I’m just trying to learn the best way to get my knives to work.
     
  16. sickpuppy1

    sickpuppy1 Gold Member Gold Member

    757
    Sep 27, 2018
    I have both. Users get the toothy edge, occasional or display knives get the shiny.
     
  17. Kobuk

    Kobuk

    6
    Tuesday
    I’ll admit, those shiny edges sure look pretty! Also some impressive tests on that Bess scale! You guys sure know your metallurgy and how to put a keen edge on the different steels. Impressive.
     

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