Fighting with sheath & knife

R

r.j. squirrel

Joined
Feb 27, 2002
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118
I'd like to thank Mr. Walker for taking on the responsibility for this forum - I'm going to excavate all my old FC and FK issues today !
With the rise of "hard" sheaths such as Kydex and with a clip attachment, has anyone experimented with pulling the sheath and using it as a short stick in the off-hand? There are times I've picked up a knife/sheath that's not attached to me and drawn the blade, then realized the hard sheath makes a pretty interesting weapon to throw, strike, or block.
Ideas on whether the sheath has any place besides stuck to your pants? I do know the Ka-bar leather sheath has a staple that opened a nasty cut on my hand - an "own-goal" :)
 
I guess you could... but it sounds pretty stupid to me. There are so many better weapons and tactics.

Also taking your sheath off would result in losing a few precious moments where you could actually use a more effective attack other than sheath whacking. If it were easy to take the sheath off than in my opinion it was not properly secured. That could result in pulling out your knife with the sheath still on.

That's my take on it.
 
The hard (or soft) sheathes with clip attachments I favor are those you can't easily disengage from their attachment point. Sheath security is primary when carrying / drawing so when I've found poorly made clip carry systems I either disregard the entire package, or have a much better carry system made for the knife.

Again, the SeaWolf from TOPS offers one of the best clip carry Kydex sheathes I've used in many years now. I don't worry at all about the sheath staying exactly where it needs to, and the draw stroke is not hampered by the sheath moving with the knife during the draw...or during the blade being reinserted (SAFETY).

One could use any fair sized sheath as a secondary weapon to the blade if, for example, the appropriate circumstance saw the knife/sheath off the belt or harness at the time of the confrontation. The Filipinos in their fighting systems teach you how to use a shoe or sandal effectively, as well as a newspaper, magazine, and so on. You can slap, divert, parry, and strike with a good leather or Kydex sheath thereby creating pain, possible injury, distraction, and so on while softening or opening up an avenue for the primary weapon (Knife).

I fussed around with this using both the CS leather sheath for their bowie knife, as well as with steel bayonet scabbards. If I'm not mistaken even western / European sword fighting included practical use of the scabbard at times, and the western bowie knife often was tucked in behind a belt and not attached by a loop allowing the knife to be stored safely wherever one was but still available for use...meaning the sheath was likewise available.

I dunno. Train it and see if you find the thought process viable or helpful, even under perhaps the most extreme of circumstances. Better yet, as in the Filipino arts, the sheath translates as a shoe translates as a rolled up magazine translates as...? Sometimes we don't have our blades available but we do have something else at hand that can be used successfully to get us out of a bad place. Remember to improvise. Having an open and explorative mind can make the difference between life and death.
 
One of the main reasons I started my company was to reposition sheaths to different areas depending on dress, use, etc.

Kydex/Concealex, is indeed cut resistant. But the off hand, IMHO, is better served empty for grasping, or filled with another blade or impact weapon. One of the nice features of plastic is you can hang the weapon upside down and not worry about it coming out if a snap breaks or velcro gives.

I am experimenting with plastic bracers so a lightweight yet cut resistant barrier can be used under a shirt or jacket. The Spanish fencers used to wear one made of brass and leather. I certianly wouldn't want to lug that around!
 
Perhaps a more general statement of my question is: would you rather have a knife and empty hand, or a knife and short stick/fist load?
I find a number of times a large sheath knife is not on my body but near at hand: camping where I'm not dragging my 9" chopper around on my belt, or it's in my backpack, or laying at home.
 
Ultimately I would like to have a hawk in the dominant hand and knife in the off hand. But if I just have a knife I prefer the left hand empty, so I can grab and throw things or grab, or parry with the other. Often there are things around that can be picked up and hurled like sand, chairs, lamps, books, rocks, or the offending limb of the attacker.
 
Hey Greg, maybe we need a thread on improvised weapons?

As for you Rob - I heard you prefer nude & oiled Greco-Roman wrestling, with sexy results.

Kevin "Kid Teabag" Schlossberg
9 time undefeated Teabag Champion
 
Actually if I could I would exist only in an oiled up state, complete with G string and Teva's. But then my REAL swinging weapon would bar me from the airplane!
 
rj squirrel

I had asked that question a while back (actually mine was more about paired knives than knife and fist load/sheath) while training with an outstanding teacher of the blade (and other related combative arts). The answer he gave was largely from the perspective of the Filipino/Indonesian arts, on which modern bladework is heavily based. In these arts, a hand in considered "live" if it is empty. It is considered "dead" if holding something (even your knife hand is "dead"). If you have something in your hand, it is committed to using only that option, whereas an empty hand can be used in many more different ways. In fighting with one knife and an empty hand, the empty hand facilitates knife strikes very, very well, almost as a multiplier for the effectiveness of your single weapon. Trapping the opponent's weapon arm can be an extremely effective tactic in "the hole" when weapons are involved. If you can trap (or check, even for a brief moment) the enemy's weapon, while continuing devestating strikes/cuts of your own, the fight is going to end quickly. Hence the effectiveness of the "live" hand.
 
I have heard of throwing the sheath at the enemy as you draw, as a distraction, then running in and stabbing them. Also, in Stone's famous classic "Glossary of the Construction Decoration and Use of Arms and Armor in All Nations and All Times", there's a picture of a Fillipino sword the hardwood scabbard of which has an integral handgrip for use as a shield!
 
Stone's references to the KRIS also described the practice of using it's sheath for parrying- so there is precedent in at least one style.
 
This video shows some uses of the sheath as a "first strike", and then as a parry tool/impact weapon. Depends on the kind of sheath you have.

If you carry a fixed blade IWB, upon attack (assuming some surprise on your part), draw the whole thing and immediately strike your opponent. Then take the opportunity to take your knife out and strike with the knife. The sheath can then be used to parry with or as an off-hand weapon.

Chas Clements makes a leather sheath that is reinforced with a piece of spring steel (flat against one side of the sheath) that assists this type of manouever.

The knife technique in this tape comes from Kuntao Silat of the de Thouars family systems - Willem/Victor primarily I think.

Pierre
 
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