Finger groove on blade - why?

C

CanDo

Joined
Mar 10, 2006
Messages
913
I see a lot blades here (mostly 4"-6" customs) that have a deep groove ahead of the handle, before the edge starts for the index finger. When I first saw this, I thought, "Cool, you can choke up for precise tasks" but then kept thinking. A normal knife is no different as far as the amount of control afforded. Can someone tell me what the point is?

Like this one:
1188-1.jpg

From here: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=516153




EDIT: To clarify, I was quite tired when I wrote the original post. I am indeed speaking of oversized choils intended to be gripped with the index finger.
 
Cando,

Sounds like you are referring to the choil of a knife. Yes, it does allow the user to choke up on the blade for precise cutting. I personally don't like them on smaller belt knives like my Fox River. For me, I don't need a choil if the edge comes all the way to the handle. To me, I'd rather have the most usable edge on a 4" knife than take it up with a choil. However, on larger knives, they are fine with me.

I don't know what you mean by "normal knife" in your post. Are you talking about a knife without a choil or something else. Some clarification will help me answer your question.

Kev
 
Sorry, I should have realized that my incoherent rambling would not get the image across. I've added an image into my original post.
 
I don't know what to tell you. It doesn't make any sense to me, if you just bring the edge all the way to the handle, you have the same effect but without looking ugly. That's just me though so...
z0tdntknw.gif
 
From A.G. Russell:

Choil

The cut away area between the edge and the tang of a pocket knife blade and between the edge and the guard of a straight knife. The choil may or may not have enough space for a finger, it's true purpose is to allow the edge to be sharpened all the way to the tang in a pocket knife and to the end of the edge in others. Any reference of choil and finger space or choil and handle is improper.

- Mark
 
Gives you a lot more leverage, particularly if you're using the tip on a relatively large knife. I mostly prefer it on knives that have 6" or longer blades, but have liked it on some shorter knives, since it lets you get your hand further out on the blade, and put force directly behind the part of the edge you are using.
Guess it's more a matter of personal preference and how you use a knife that determines whether it's a good thing or not.
 
Sometimes they seem kind of silly. I'm guessing for aesthetic reasons, they allow the designer to avoid making an overly long handle, since there seems little practical reason to not extend the handle over the area where a choil may be.
 
My Allan Blade bushcrafter has the edge running all the way to the handle. It means that you can use this portion of the blade, rather than having it wasted. It seems like a better idea than a choil. Saying that, I do think choils look kinda cool.
 
the choil also helps when sharpening a knife. i'm sure you have seen knives that kind of look like a recurve from not being able to get into the corner square at the grind start.
 
I think on most knives a large choil is completely useless. A very small one can help when sharpening but the large ones only serve to put the cutting edge further away from what you are cutting. Instead of "choking up for delicate work" wouldn't it make sense to keep your hand on the handle and away from the blade?

To me a large choil like on the knife pictured is an inch of lost edge. I don't know why large choils started showing up like this. I guess a lot of people like the look and try to justify it when in reality they aren't very useful. I just don't see a point in having less useable edge.

For smaller knives with 4" blades or so I see no reason for one. On a larger knife it might make sense to have a choil for "choking up". But doing delicate work with a big knife isn't effective. Most of us carry a folder that will serve that purpose better. YMMV.
 
I like the 50/50 choil on some Spyderco folders. On a knife like their Dragonfly it lets me get almost a full 4 finger grip even though it's a pretty tiny knife. On fixed blades I don't really see the point.
 
About the only thing I like about big choils like that is that if you have a big heavy blade, choking up to the choil sets your balance point back a bit and "livens" up the blade. But, in general, I don't find that to be especially useful...certainly not as useful as having a blade that actually goes down to the handle!

I tend to think of this as a Busse feature...maybe some of the Busse guys can comment? I have a scrapyard guard with a big choil on it, and while it makes a better fighter choked up, I spend something like zero minutes a year knife-fighting and would benefit a lot more from a proper blade!
 
k_estela said:
For me, I don't need a choil if the edge comes all the way to the handle. To me, I'd rather have the most usable edge on a 4" knife than take it up with a choil.
Kev
Click to expand...

I don't like choils. Above is one reason, and well stated Kev.

Plus IMHO, it wouldn't be comfortable for extended cutting periods. IE it would give you blisters if you had to do hundreds of repetitive cuts. Which is how I judge a handle and/or a grip.

Also in really cold weather, you're not going to want your hand on that much steel either.

For finer cuts, why not have a knife that is designed to make finer cuts??


IMO its an attempt to make your big chopper into an all around knife. Which IMO, is not a worthwhile goal. No knife is good for every task. Adding a choil only makes a BIG knife half-assed at fine cuts. On a small knife it detracts from the appearance IMO.

This is what the Nessmuk trio is all about. A valid trio would have your big chopper (a big knife is an acceptable big chopper). A fine cutting knife, and a pocket knife. This takes away the necessity of the choil, and if you were properly outfitted with such a trio, you'd probably laugh at your choil when you needed to make fine cuts with a 1 lb knife rather than use it.

This is all opinion. No flames necessary. Opposing opinions are just as valid.
 
I like the choils. I understand some stating it's limited use, but saying it is useless is not correct for everyone. I do wish it was an option, so we all got what we wanted.
It is useful for sharpening purposes, but not necessarily as large as they show up on many blades. I personally use a large choil alot. I have nerve damage in my arms and psoriatic arthritis has taken a tremendous amount of my grip from me, so I depend on this area and finger grooves to help ensure my grip. I am most grateful for the appearance of super choil.;)
 
The Rat Cutlery RC-3 has a choil on it. It is the one of the first knives w/ a choil I have used much, and I must say it is good. Using it lets the belly of the knife sit closer to your hand, and lets you work closer to the tip. The knife actually feels right when you are using the choil. I would not have thought it would be a good idea, but you find it a good design once you use it for a bit.
For some things, like was mentioned, it puts the blade farther away from your hand, but if you think about it, many knives have an unsharpened area behind the blade anyway, so the difference is only 3/16-1/4" or so.
The biggest difference to get used to would be to go from a puuko style blade w/ an edge that goes right up to a handle w/ no guard, to a knife w/ a large choil.
 
Forgive me if I'm obtuse, but I don't think the original post is about the choil. I think he is talking about the single index finger grove on the handle of the knife itself.

I personally find those counterproductive since they limit the type of grip you can take on the knife. Since the knife has a guard there is plenty of leverage. The finger groove is in the way for some grips and unnecessary for the primary grip. A choil on the other hand increase versatility IMO and eases sharpening.
 
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