Finger groove on blade - why?

[mymindisamob]

Forgive me if I'm obtuse, but I don't think the original post is about the choil. I think he is talking about the single index finger grove on the handle of the knife itself.

I personally find those counterproductive since they limit the type of grip you can take on the knife. Since the knife has a guard there is plenty of leverage. The finger groove is in the way for some grips and unnecessary for the primary grip. A choil on the other hand increase versatility IMO and eases sharpening.

He does state that it is ahead of the handle though.

 

[skammer]

I wont use a blade over 4-5 inches without one. Alows more utility and grip configurations, indespensable.

Skam

 

[straitshot]

I've always believed it is intended to serve two purposes on a hunting blade. Sometimes the extra "reach" of a longer blade is usefull when dressing big game, yet still being able to choke up closer to the blade belly and tip for control is useful. Second, especially on knives with slick or slightly tapered handles it can be used effectively on a draw cut. I sometimes use it if it's there but don't recall missing it if there is none on a blade up to about 5" or so. The ones I can't decipher are those bigger than needed for sharpening but too small to accommodate even a dainty index finger. Very curious.Regards, ss.

 

[shecky]

I wont use a blade over 4-5 inches without one. Alows more utility and grip configurations, indespensable.

This is what I don't get about these things. Why have a knife over 4-5 inches anyway, if a choil is indispensable? Say you take a 10"oal knife with a 6" blade, and a 4" handle, and sacrifice 2" of the blade length for a choil, what's the point of having a 6" blade? May as well just have a 4" blade with a 6" handle, so as to preserve the overall length. Or shorten the overall length 2" and accept the 8" oal.

 

[R.A.T.]

I use a choil on small knives all the time. If I'm skinning, then most of the time my middle finger is in the choil and the index finger is laying on the spine. With this grip you have absolute precise control of the knife tip. The choil on RAT Cutlery RC-3s is there so the design can have a handle guard and also allow choking up one finger forward, or using the choil as described above. I guess it all depends on what's comfortable to someone, but for some of us choils are not useless. Of course, I pinch grip a machete instead of hammer gripping one like most folks.

Jeff

 

[skammer]

This is what I don't get about these things. Why have a knife over 4-5 inches anyway, if a choil is indispensable? Say you take a 10"oal knife with a 6" blade, and a 4" handle, and sacrifice 2" of the blade length for a choil, what's the point of having a 6" blade? May as well just have a 4" blade with a 6" handle, so as to preserve the overall length. Or shorten the overall length 2" and accept the 8" oal.

Simple, it balances forward making it a chopping blade. The choil allows a choked up grip to allow a larger knife to be used for lighter duty tasks without needing a smaller knife.

Greater utility.

Skam

 

[Codger_64]

Here is a design that Imperial tried circa 1974. They sold a few to Sears as a test market. They sold a few thru their National Dealer network. In other words, they ran it up the flagpole and no one saluted. Then they threw it against the wall and it didn't stick.

It is not that comfortable to use, and the utility is not improved over a shorter blade without the feature. Also, you can see plainly also how it weakens the blade.

They aren't desirable and sought after by Imperial Schrade collectors, so don't command a very high price even in NIB condition (which is how most I have come across are found). I have both the Sears and Imperial versions (only difference being stamping and etches), but as research material, not because they are of user or collector interest.

Codger

 

[CUTS LIKE A KRIS]

I am not a fan of choils, but if you have to have one I feel it should be a full finger sized choil. Nothing cheezes me off more than trying to cut something and getting it hung up on those little 2mm divots out of the blade. I have sharpened knives thousands of times (if not thousands of knives) and have never had a problem getting an edge right to the handle. The only times I have seen where a sharpener did not allow this is on my walnut handled EZ-Lap, but I just cut a chunk out of the base so that I could get right to the edge of the stone. If you need a choil to choke up on work I think this says more about the handle design employed, than the usefulness of the blade.
That being said I can appreciate the choils on the Spyderco Native and other small knives as it allows the folded handle to be smaller, essentially turning part of the blade into the handle for a better grip.
My opinion only.

 

[mymindisamob]

Here is a design that Imperial tried circa 1974. They sold a few to Sears as a test market. They sold a few thru their National Dealer network. In other words, they ran it up the flagpole and no one saluted. Then they threw it against the wall and it didn't stick.

It is not that comfortable to use, and the utility is not improved over a shorter blade without the feature. Also, you can see plainly also how it weakens the blade.

They aren't desirable and sought after by Imperial Schrade collectors, so don't command a very high price even in NIB condition (which is how most I have come across are found). I have both the Sears and Imperial versions (only difference being stamping and etches), but as research material, not because they are of user or collector interest.

Codger

Although the feature we are discussing here is grossly exaggerated on this knife, the idea is clear. Overall it proves nothing to me other than they tried a test market and failed. That doesn't change the fact that I still prefer a choil and that it is useful to me.

 

[ilbruche]

Simple, it balances forward making it a chopping blade. The choil allows a choked up grip to allow a larger knife to be used for lighter duty tasks without needing a smaller knife.

Greater utility.

Skam

I can see the reasoning behind this. But a knife that is a "chopping" blade probably isn't going to be as useful as a smaller knife. On one hand it makes sense, on the other it doesn't.

What if you need the use of the tip? Is a choil on a 10" blade really going to help?

 

[skammer]

I can see the reasoning behind this. But a knife that is a "chopping" blade probably isn't going to be as useful as a smaller knife. On one hand it makes sense, on the other it doesn't.

What if you need the use of the tip? Is a choil on a 10" blade really going to help?

I will leave this debate for the search function when and if it ever comes back for us cheapos.

Skam

 

[tirod3]

I use the choil on my SnG to choke up on the grip. I can put my third finger through it while keeping the thumb and first finger close to the point - for fine cutting. It makes a knife shorter, yes, but also allows precise control, and more pressure. A longer bladed knife is less able to do that - the edge must be avoided, forcing less grip, etc.

Lots have responded that they lose an inch of edge, a blade needs all of it, etc. In the 3-4 inch range, a knife blade is already short enough to be limited in cutting. Having more utility and control is certainly an advantage. Over 6 inches, a knife is not really a precision tool to me, and a large choil would be a waste, even contradictory to the purpose. Big knives are for big rough jobs, small knives for small jobs.

Small knives are helped by choils.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

Of course, I pinch grip a machete instead of hammer gripping one like most folks.

Jeff

Why in the world would you do this? Can't see how this would help you cut vegetation/chop, etc. Or are you talking about trying to use it for fine(er) work?

If it's what I'm thinking of, I guess I do the same thing with a kukri -- hold the blade down by the sweet spot in hand, rather than the handle, for cleaning fish/game, etc.

 

[ADD]

Great topic! :thumbup:

I would love to have a few makers (high profile or not), who are proponents of this design, chime in here...

 

[desmobob]

I can appreciate the choils on the Spyderco Native and other small knives as it allows the folded handle to be smaller, essentially turning part of the blade into the handle for a better grip.
My opinion only.

My sentiments also.

I always thought the large choil was ingenious for this purpose. But on a fixed blade, I don't really care to have one.

Stay sharp,
desmobob

 

[R.A.T.]

Why in the world would you do this? Can't see how this would help you cut vegetation/chop, etc. Or are you talking about trying to use it for fine(er) work?

If it's what I'm thinking of, I guess I do the same thing with a kukri -- hold the blade down by the sweet spot in hand, rather than the handle, for cleaning fish/game, etc.

Used properly it gives the machete more speed since you're actually allowing it to rotate in the pinch grip slightly just before impact. I was taught this many years ago in the jungles of Peru.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

OH, I know what you're talking about now.
I thought you meant you pinched the blade, choking up on it.

 

[CanDo]

Forgive me if I'm obtuse, but I don't think the original post is about the choil. I think he is talking about the single index finger grove on the handle of the knife itself.

I personally find those counterproductive since they limit the type of grip you can take on the knife. Since the knife has a guard there is plenty of leverage. The finger groove is in the way for some grips and unnecessary for the primary grip. A choil on the other hand increase versatility IMO and eases sharpening.

For clarification, I was speaking of oversized choils - I'll fix my post to make that clear. Wherever the conversation goes though, is good

A lot of good information in this thread, thanks.

 

[XMP]

In that case, I'll modify what I said. I find a choil very useful, with a bigger blade you can have control by choking up and still have the weight forward for chopping. It probably comes down to what you get used to, but I prefer my knives with choils provided they are usable.