Fire building from an expert

[digispam]

Hello, I'm new at this forum.

I have a variation on the cotton ball with Vaseline:

Melt Vaseline, soak the cotton balls and squeeze out the excess (wear latex gloves).

Then soak them with as much Zippo lighter fluid as possible, and seal in a film canister with electrical tape.

Basically, I have been able to get almost double the burn time of my best attempt at Vaseline and cotton alone, because the lighter fluid lights super easy allowing me to use much more Vaseline for a longer burn time. I was able to get a fire with fresh off the tree evergreen sticks about pencil size without struggling too hard - 15 degress Farenheit moderately windy Michigan winter evening, frozen ground, wet green kindling.

I also thoroughly tested the durability of the sealed canister to extreme heat, cold and moisture after about 8 weeks sealed. Try it and let me know what you think!

 

[digispam]

Next, I think I’ll try putting various other materials in - inner tube, wax, wood chips, steel wool, plastic, nylon webbing fiber glass (acts as a wick), latex, motor oil, alcohol, magnesium – I should be able to affect burn time, burn temperature, flame height, wind resistance, and moisture resistance by adding different materials. Only other thing I can think of is maybe a sturdier container such as a metal canister with a waterproof seal.

My money is on inner tube to possibly increase burn time and temperature. it should still light pretty easy with lighter fluid present. Gasoline has more BTU's per ounce, but its unstable. Motor oil should burn longer, more stable, hard to light. We'll see - I have a whole garage full of flamable stuff

 

[sunnyd]

Welcome to the forum digispam! I very much like your idea on the cotton ball Vaseline variation. I am going to give it a try myself to see how well it works for me. I appreciate the heads up.:thumbup:

 

[Forrie]

Melt Vaseline, soak the cotton balls and squeeze out the excess (wear latex gloves).

Then soak them with as much Zippo lighter fluid as possible, and seal in a film canister with electrical tape.

tryed it works well cheers.

 

[digispam]

Here are some other cheater tinders and aids that I have tried with various results

Re-lighting "trick" birthday candles - poke it in the ground next to the fire you want to build, and you can light small shavings and add them to the fire.

Chapstick - unravel some thread, wrap around your needle in your emergency sewing kit, and poke it in the Chapstick like a wick. Makes an ok (not great) candle

Visene bottle (ok) / nasal spray bottle (better) with:
gasoline, kerosene, machine oil, wd-40, lithium spray grease (wow!), isopropyl alcohol, lighter fluid (duh!), bug spray, hair spray, mineral spirits.

Charcoal from a fish tank filter soaked in any of the above

Some alternatives to petroleum jelly:
Axle grease, some hair gels, hair wax, lithium grease

Mix Styrofoam with gas until you get gel; mix with cotton (stand back, it’s like Napalm)

Road flares, Battery with steel wool, Waxed or varnished matches, Various firecrackers, sparklers, etc, Cotton dryer lint


And the winner is: match heads from paper match books soaked in gasoline with Styrofoam mixed in (WOW!) sealed in small glass jar from model paint. Yikes!

 

[kr1]

And the winner is: match heads from paper match books soaked in gasoline with Styrofoam mixed in (WOW!) sealed in small glass jar from model paint. Yikes!

Isn't gasoline and styrofoam the basic ingredients for napalm? Or am I remembering that incorrectly?

KR

 

[digispam]

yeah, buddy!

 

[runningboar]

Your not trying to start a fire, you are trying to blow yourself up.

 

[digispam]

Yeah, not very stable (or sporting) methods for fire starting, that's why I was experimenting with vaseline & cotton - for stability. But for a bet-your-life-on-it guaranteed fire no matter what even for a first time novice, it'll work.

But then, I'm not a very skilled survivalist, just a sometimes camper (hoping to improve on that).


I will say though, that my least favorite is magnesium. It burns hot and it's stable, easy to light - but if you are going to carry tinder with you, I can think of about 50 items the same size and weight that work better.

 

[runningboar]

Out of that 50 how many of them are indestructable, completely water proof and have a source of ignition permanently attached?

There are lots of sources of tender but I can't think of any that will take the abuse of a mag block and still light a fire. Chris

 

[digispam]

Good point, yes I do see the reason for their long standing popularity. I’m just listing a bunch of effective items, not necessarily all practical.

But the ignition on a magnesium is permanently attached by glue - you could glue a flint to anything.

As for indestructible, I feel that there is a useful limit on durability - for example, in my life I have never accidentally dropped something a hundred feet down and gotten it back, or say recovered something from the bottom of a lake after 2 seasons. For me, any item that is alot more durable than me (not saying much ) or that would require inordinate effort to break is durable enough. After that, I would argue that the effectiveness of a tinder outweighs its durability (eg. an old style flint rock and steel striker is far more durable than ferrocerinum or fire steel, but what would you carry?)

BTW, I carry a magnesium at all times: http://www.bestglide.com/K1_Info.html as well as a zippo.

 

[SkunkWerX]

Your not trying to start a fire, you are trying to blow yourself up.

Yeah, what Chris said.
Be careful with the mixing of different materials/chemicals.
Don't assume or just go by what you may read or hear. For every "backyard" formula I've read on the internet, i ahve also read ones that could get you killed fast.

If you decide to dance with the devil, better wear a nomex suit.

There are definitions for flammable, combustible, and explosive.
Don't mix them up. My advice is this: Stay away from oxidizers!
If you don't know what an oxidizer is, then you don't have any business combining reactive chemicals.

If you still can't heed the warning, use very very small amounts, and be aware that doubling even a small amount may cause the reaction to occur 10x fold faster/bigger.

BE SAFE. this is no joke.
Some chemicals can react/combust/ explode just by virtue of being in contact with each other, that includes fumes.

 

[Shotgun]

Yep, I know of two chemicals you can buy at the supermarket that's all you need to make a bomb. And if I know one way, there are dozens of ways.

 

[digispam]

Yep, I am aware of the nature of the chemical reactants that I have used, thanks for the info though.

That's why I originally posted "Originally Posted by digispam
Melt Vaseline, soak the cotton balls and squeeze out the excess (wear latex gloves).

Then soak them with as much Zippo lighter fluid as possible, and seal in a film canister with electrical tape"

Because I have settled on a stable, effective, safe, durable tinder. The rest is a brief summary of past experiences from age 10 on.

 

[Watchful]

Isn't gasoline and styrofoam the basic ingredients for napalm? Or am I remembering that incorrectly?

It's one of the basic methods for making a useful substitute. Napalm is ultimately napathenic acid and palmitic acid (hence its name). Napalm is closer by far to gel shaving cream than styrofoam! And true napalm doesn't even have gasoline: that's mixed/added later.

In Digispam's formula, the styrofoam acts as a stablilizer, and helps the gasoline burn longer by reducing its overall temperature.

It's not *explosive* by any means. It is however very flammable, and if you don't have enough styrofoam, it will create a fireball on you. But no significant pressure unless you superheat the air with a LOT of it.

Skunkwerx's admonitions are totally valid though: if you don't know what you're doing, don't experiment. I don't even advise trying out styrofoam and gasoline unless you're with someone who has done a lot with it. And that's comparatively safer than most every other so-called recipe!

 

[digispam]

now this has gone way off track!

 

[digispam]

And to be even more succinct, Napalm is closer to being a family of incendiary liquids than an exact recipe which may include any number of different gelling agents including but not limited to those listed above. Today however, Napalm would likely be comprised primarily of polystyrene (Styrofoam) and benzene and be referred to as “napalm-b”. This mixture is stable at a wide range of temperatures and when mixed with gasoline produces a stable, sticky, long burning incendiary.

So as not to get caught up in semantics, gas + Styrofoam = napalm

But I seem to have unintentionally gotten a few people a bit riled up. My suggestion was for cotton balls soaked in Vaseline and naphtha based lighter fluid as good prepared tinder, not a recommendation to carry around an incendiary bomb designed to depopulate the area! Really, all that stuff is just info, not recommendations, hence the “Yikes” at the end of the post.

Anyways, try the Vaseline with lighter fluid. It gives you the advantages of both easy ignition, and long burn time. The ingredients are non self-reactive at a wide range of temperatures and the finished product is cheap, highly resistant to moisture, easy to make, long burning, easy to ignite, long lasting in storage, and not extremely hazardous to be in contact with.

 

[victory]

Isn't gasoline and styrofoam the basic ingredients for napalm? Or am I remembering that incorrectly?

KR

it's missing the benzene, but 2 outta 3 should burn pretty well.

napathenic acid and palmitic acid were the original formula. Modern (by which i mean vietnam era) napalm is Napalm-B or "super-napalm", which is benzene and polystyrene mixed with gasoline. It's a slower, more controlled burn.

 

[upnorth]

Why not get a multipack of these lil buggers. Toss a can or two in your pack. Pop the lid, light it, put tinder,kindling on it. zipity doo daa. Youll be roasting that choked and bug eyed rabbit that you snared in no time flat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterno