Forged titanium armor plate knives

Thank you Mr. Crow! :]
 
Super plasticity - It was done at the transition temperature between two crystal structures .

If you go through that research you will find a Ti-O equilibrium diagram .That's the Fe-C equivalent equilibrium diagram .That's a good example of Microalloying !After working for years trying to keep Oxygen out of Ti alloys you have to re-adjust your brain to look at it as an alloying element !!! IIRC the super plastic work was done in an Argon atmosphere to prevent oxygen and nitrogen contamination !
 
Mecha said:
I've never seen one in person and have always heard good things about them. :) I heard the alloy they use is Beta C, which is a good old-school and readily-available beta ti formula that holds a big variety of alloying elements. But I don't know for sure what alloy they use, or what their heat-treatment schedule is like, just that people hold them in high regard.
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Ive owned and used MISSION Beta Ti knives for a good many years and am very happy.

As Mecha touched upon, ti knives have a bad rep amongst most knife owners/afficionados.

When ti became all the rage, scrupulous knife makers made knives of any old ti about, as most quickly found out, that Beta ti is hard to work.

Some of these inferious ti knives will not cut butter on a hot summer day and has also been touched upon, many knives touted as being Beta are in fact not.

Mission is the only one or amongst the few making 'mass produced' knives, who are able to work Beta ti (not counting custom makers like Mecha here of course).

My old Mission knives are super strong, ergonomics are great and they are impervious to the elements.

My knives will zip through several deer and will hold a working edge for a perfectly adequate time.

One knife (the MPU) does double duty for a minimalist camping/hunting knife and for when kayaking.

Just leave the knife in the vest and rinse the rig after use in salt water.

Seems there are not a lot of people using these excellent knives, which is sad, as they will work just fine.

I could not be more happy with my Mission knives in any event.

Great knives which I heartedly recommend.






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After purchasing and using three other Ti knives which were completely useless, I randomly and with high hopes, acquired both an MP5 and an MPU. Both of which have been used sparingly in the weeds/water and they both were acquired more as experimental curiosities than as front line carry gear. I have never had an issue with the MP5 on light duty chores (slicing, chopping, skinning, joint separation, carving, light shelter construction, feather stix, but no chopping/batoning/limbing yet). They are GREAT in salt water and I am amazed at their complete refusal to oxidize/rust/discolor even with intentional lack of care just to see what would happen. I have had both of them on a dozen dives and 3 different offshore adventures as well. So far they are superstars in regards to ability to cut line/clean fish/pry bottom rocks...(even hacked up a dead coral head with the MP5 once...MPU was too dainty but is my trusty backup now)/chop rope/hold its edge/look pristine and ignore intentional after-use care. Had success with resharpening both of them and in fact even reprofiled the MP5 blade on two separate occasions with varying success (diamonds and very tough work on water stone...still searching for the right combo). I am leaving for a mountain trip shortly once my big-boy MDK-Ti arrives....I bought it for dive/offshore purposes but it will be fun to see what it will do in the weeds. All 3 will be in the gear bag to be thoroughly worked out this time. Anxious to see what they will do on some heavy duty bushie chores. I really like what you have done here, Mecha, and will definitely stay tuned as I am a potential customer. The blade profile is of great interest as it defines the eventual use. Chemistry and physics at its finest! Keep up the good work.
 
My apologies....just reread this and realized that '5' does not equal 'S'....had H&K on the brain!
 
Thanks for adding your input, Bladescout and dsw0557. What you guys are saying shows one of the things I try to emphasize: different ti alloys vary a lot, and how they are processed further makes a huge difference in their characteristics, and that great knives can be made from some ti alloys (and swords) if it's done well. There is a lot of weird hype, and misleading, veiled information out there about titanium, and one thing I aim to do is to be accurate, realistic and BS-free when it comes to ti blades
 
mete said:
Super plasticity - It was done at the transition temperature between two crystal structures .

If you go through that research you will find a Ti-O equilibrium diagram .That's the Fe-C equivalent equilibrium diagram .That's a good example of Microalloying !After working for years trying to keep Oxygen out of Ti alloys you have to re-adjust your brain to look at it as an alloying element !!! IIRC the super plastic work was done in an Argon atmosphere to prevent oxygen and nitrogen contamination !
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Interesting comparison to the iron/carbon equilibrium diagram! To a small degree, "dirty" ti can be stronger in some ways than "clean" a'la microalloying, but that's pretty limited when it comes to oxygen and nitrogen (atmospheric contaminants). It would be better to microalloy in, say, sulphur, iron, tin, copper, etc. that has a truly beneficial effect. From what I understand oxygen is almost universally bad for ti because the ridiculously strong bond between the two atoms is basically where a crack can start on the smallest level, in metal that is normally very hard to crack unless it's heat-treated that way. I can only guess at this point that the iron content has some sort of neutralizing effect on the oxygen, or possibly, the oxygen's effects are good for an armor plate.
 
If you look at the Ti-O diagram you'll see the limits of O levels and this may have little to do with Iron. Check out the drawings of the Ti crystals and see where the O atoms go and how they diffuse through crystals .....I wonder how long it took them to make those crystal drawings ???
 
mete said:
If you look at the Ti-O diagram you'll see the limits of O levels and this may have little to do with Iron. Check out the drawings of the Ti crystals and see where the O atoms go and how they diffuse through crystals .....I wonder how long it took them to make those crystal drawings ???
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I think it may have something to do with iron because iron atoms are also a fine-dispersing interstitial element throughout the titanium lattice, like oxygen. Perhaps the iron is taking up the same available spaces and interrupting or blocking an oxygen-to-oxygen shearing of the lattice, since they do want to become such nice ordered rows that won't bend or give up their spot. Then you could have the strong Ti-O bond in there to make the armor plate "brittle-hard" and iron to keep it tough and deaden crack propagation at the same time, all in one plate. The Air Force experimental ti armor plates from the '70s were a very hard and brittle beta ti plate (around HRc 65) bonded to a backing plate of softer, tougher 6al4v.

Or maybe I'm jumping into the deep end! :D:foot:

The armor plate did remain somewhat flexible after the forging, grinding and heat-treatment, but the plate stock itself definitely has a marked rigid/brittle feel.
 
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lite and slicey.
i could not get over how light this was.
i carried this around in an old wallet in my front pocket at work and it never felt out of place.
i work with paper corrugated and plastic all day and used it to cut everything.
at the end of the day though i surrendered it to my wife
 
With such a high iron content, what about claying a few to see if you get a hamon. That would be cool!
 
fz1boxer said:
lite and slicey.
i could not get over how light this was.
i carried this around in an old wallet in my front pocket at work and it never felt out of place.
i work with paper corrugated and plastic all day and used it to cut everything.
at the end of the day though i surrendered it to my wife
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Thanks fz1boxer. So far I'm getting good feedback on the other two blades as well. More armor plate knives! :D

Dave, I'll certainly try it, and there's a good chance it will work. It would be insane.
 
Air Force armor . Reading that again I was reminded of an old helmet the Metropolitan Museum of Art bought . Very plain ,simple , why spend money on that ? Well they didn't understand the construction. Simple but beautifully made with a hard outer layer over a softer inner layer ! Must have stolen the AF idea !!! LOL Made in Milan Italy, an arms and armor center .
 
mete said:
Air Force armor . Reading that again I was reminded of an old helmet the Metropolitan Museum of Art bought . Very plain ,simple , why spend money on that ? Well they didn't understand the construction. Simple but beautifully made with a hard outer layer over a softer inner layer ! Must have stolen the AF idea !!! LOL Made in Milan Italy, an arms and armor center .
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Like a differentially hardened sword, but in plate form!
 
This is one interesting thread. I plan to buy one of his GR38 ATI 425 from AMX but not sure if this alloyhas any benefit over 6A4V as main construction of blade? The edge will be Stellite 6K brazed together by silver alloy.
 
shqxk said:
This is one interesting thread. I plan to buy one of his GR38 ATI 425 from AMX but not sure if this alloyhas any benefit over 6A4V as main construction of blade? The edge will be Stellite 6K brazed together by silver alloy.
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The ATI 425 should be more difficult to scratch and feel more steel-like and hard than 6al4v. That sounds like a super cool knife.
 
When you are doing water quench, I'm assuming you are using salt water, correct? To avoid the vapor jacket issue???

No cracking/failure rate with TI?
 
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