FSS Stamped Council Tools Pulaski "Twisted Neck" variation. Anyone?

A

Anson Barthold

Joined
Feb 27, 2018
Messages
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It's their cheaper version pulaski. I don't see them on the website right now but they have been made very recently. Maybe still made, who can tell with their atrocious new website.
 
You're quite right about unhelpful their website is. I know that they still produced them, but just in a little time I spent online trying to research it it seemd the kind with a visible twist in the neck we're considerably harder to find examples of. Also I didn't know if the FSS stamp wood in some way help to narrow down a time frame of its production
 
We have a ton of those at the Washington Trails Association. I haven't seen them stamped FSS before, that I've only seen on the higher quality untwisted pulaski.
 
Using over-the-counter letter stamps it's not difficult for an "FSS" to miraculously appear on an otherwise unremarkable tool. Mind you, your pictured head looks to be unadulterated. If something like this increases the desirability (and hence the value) to collectors I can readily see such markings becoming more common. Sorry for being cynical about this but gov't-spec tools were/are supposed to be built to a higher standard than mere J Q Public offerings.
Nice thing about Council Tools is they're still in business and you could contact them regarding authenticity and age. I do seem to recall that the Federal Supply Service didn't come into being until 1949.
 
No need to apologize as you make extremely valid points. It's a sad fact of life nowadays that there's a higher chance of something being a fake or forgery then of it being legitimately unique. Not knowing any of it's back stoey, I'd likely have cautioned someone similarly.
The history of it that I know begins & ends with a friend's father aquiring it from a local Volunteer Fire Department when he retired, thay having been 20 years or so ago.
I can tell you though that based on my experience with high quality similar tools, that the steel it's frim is on par with the finest I've encountered
 
All I mean by that is simply that it rings out like a beautiful bell when struck, and that my Mill Bastard Black Diamond is the only file I own that wont simply skate
 
Square_peg said:
There are 1000's of FSS tools out there already. I doubt one would be faked. Simple but pointless, IMO.
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Only reason I brought that up: a twist-formed Pulaski is known to be lowest-grade offering from Council and when you visit their current site an 'FSS-spec' Pulaski (which is not likely even stamped as such) costs almost twice as much as their 'standard' (also not twist-formed) Pulaski ($150 vs $80) and the only difference (that I can determine from comparing the descriptions) is a PVC wedge in the FSS version and an aluminum wedge in the other. The company is obviously banking on buyer perception that items that are described as 'mil spec' or 'FSS spec' are somehow vastly superior to run-of-the-mill goods that undergo identical manufacture and pass along the same production line. In the same vein two identical used axes up for Internet auction will not sell for the same price if one of them happens to have 'FSS' stamped on it.
 
It's a valid point. But with the old paint in the stamp I doubt this one was faked. Pulaskis just aren't the hot market that old embossed (etched) axes are.
 
I see those and several other variations of the twisted construction semi-regularly. I want to say there was more than maker that put a twist in to things.

Yours? It's in great shape. The CT stamp next to FSS is neat. If a guy needs a Pulaski, that might be a quality one to keep around. :thumbsup:

Anson's photo:
1yyS73qh6SoF9esp56dW2BO9M52nT57LNtm-rsAJX4xFsb4lTcvz2y8rKp9oPKaZ3oOUQAsw7MuyP3TKp2eY7M9GgjReu8P9cT04xyGD8fDf4DTJqTnDUncloPK9xiAkdDMAgaW4gWmBWfIa4bGJ4EwTUAifvNsw3xr0z1G8jIfliVIjHvYHFb46KbNFicOHLrjtdEQ-iBS5MWKllF_vkBC2IK-Rlksnh1soTlPj20SoD0L96SNddnsILuq8zx9Ihs2HSfIebNPB_ccWuleTF90CImtx8oiXtYv3YJyzlHp3W16QHxNZTu411bqim-ATBEuEd1lhtIHHFS-dUjpHAQfTw9a5lY4lsuiGup8inUcnGIFvKX2qwwkGSZPGtoy9WUHnowK1vuK7Cn5_ieVMeuo2_AkH4obZd8di4skMzUdXarXAlmvu8WxrSnrangQZtwyVIMu-x--T3VV5IwqbKVfINlo0OSl6nUGAtr4if2FuoRLmiS1uzjyCbZdQ5a5rqF8o0rmZQOmvP16DFMCyYM2AtB3yH5QBhcDHIAwZbw7Cxwc_NtIRKf3hIZClxwp2t0fNVN0xC8bVzNXCI7AkiJbB0KNaP-_JlGhek1T8Fz4GhIGx4DBkLfa_RbkNdp8J7VOwEzMcoxh2_QqyKvP8eMhhMaxwRpMI=w1385-h1846-no
 
I've seen hundreds of those, working for the USFS. The current issue for us by council is of that design. I thought FSS specs require black paint, so maybe that red is a later addition, by a user. I can't see FSS being forged. No reason.
 
I looked closer at a Council I had here, twisted neck. Its black, pvc wedge, year stamp 13. There's no FSS on it, but rather a deep GSA, obviously from the factory.

Not sure what that means, if anything. I do know we have a ton of them in the tool caches. Now I'll have to look closer and see if it's all the same stamps.
 
muleman77 said:
I looked closer at a Council I had here, twisted neck. Its black, pvc wedge, year stamp 13. There's no FSS on it, but rather a deep GSA, obviously from the factory.

Not sure what that means, if anything. I do know we have a ton of them in the tool caches. Now I'll have to look closer and see if it's all the same stamps.
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Google search tells me General Services Administration is some part of Federal Supply Services. Perhaps FSS stamps have been superseded by GSA.
 
Yes, I knew who they are.
But wasn't sure if they require the same specs as FSS. Anyway, that what the USFS is buying these days either way.
 
muleman77 said:
Yes, I knew who they are.
But wasn't sure if they require the same specs as FSS. Anyway, that's what the USFS is buying these days either way.
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Old Axeman (Bernie W. of the USFS 'Axe to Grind' series) not long ago supplied us with FSS specs that he'd been asked to compile in 1999; but they omitted air-dried riven wood (vs kiln dry and sawn) handles. Bernie readily admitted these distinctions had intentionally been removed from the specs by FSS because it was anticipated that private industry would neither bid on nor even 'offer to supply' such materials. Currently there are only two USA manufacturers (Barco and Council) of Pulaskis. If recent specs have been further relaxed (via omission, or diminished description) so as not to distinguish between an easier-to-produce twist blade compared to a standard Pulaski forging, Council Tools has been cagey enough to cut yet another corner to ensure making a profit and still be lowest bidder.
 
muleman77 said:
I looked closer at a Council I had here, twisted neck. Its black, pvc wedge, year stamp 13. There's no FSS on it, but rather a deep GSA, obviously from the factory.
Click to expand...
This made me curious, so I did some digging...

Pulaski specs:

3.3.2 FSS. The FSS mark shall be stamped in 1/4 to 1/2 inch high letters on the same side and adjacent to the trademark or manufacturer's name as specified in 3.3.1.
https://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/programs/fire/documents/5100_355E.pdf


One of the exceptions (modifications) to the specs, related to the $1.29 million federal contract with Council Tool awarded 2013 (that's a lot of pulaskis), as well as the later 2016 solicitation:

9) Paragraph 3.3.2 FSS: Delete paragraph and replace with:
"3.3.2 GSA. The GSA mark shall be stamped or laser etched in 1/4 to 1/2 inch high letters on the same side and adjacent to the trademark or manufacturer's name as specified in 3.3.1."

from
https://govtribe.com/project/pulaski-tool
https://govtribe.com/project/pulaski-tool/activity
(exceptions to the specs are from the Word file available on the first linked page)


I'll speculate that the change was made because there are new pulaskis being sold to the public with FSS stamps, and the government wanted a better indicator of what's actually government property.
 
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Steve Tall said:
This made me curious, so I did some digging...

Pulaski specs:

3.3.2 FSS. The FSS mark shall be stamped in 1/4 to 1/2 inch high letters on the same side and adjacent to the trademark or manufacturer's name as specified in 3.3.1.
https://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/programs/fire/documents/5100_355E.pdf


One of the exceptions (modifications) to the specs, related to the $1.29 million federal contract with Council Tool awarded 2013 (that's a lot of pulaskis), as well as the later 2016 solicitation:

9) Paragraph 3.3.2 FSS: Delete paragraph and replace with:
"3.3.2 GSA. The GSA mark shall be stamped or laser etched in 1/4 to 1/2 inch high letters on the same side and adjacent to the trademark or manufacturer's name as specified in 3.3.1."

from
https://govtribe.com/project/pulaski-tool
https://govtribe.com/project/pulaski-tool/activity
(exceptions to the specs are from the Word file available on the first linked page)


I'll speculate that the change was made because there are FSS pulaskis being sold to the public, and the government wanted a better indicator of what's actually government property.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I'd say that answers the question. So to summarize, it's the same specs as FSS, other than the stamp.
 
muleman77 said:
Thanks! I'd say that answers the question. So to summarize, it's the same specs as FSS, other than the stamp.
Click to expand...

It looks like they also relaxed the handle standards somewhat:

EXCEPTION’s TO FOREST SERVICE DRAWING MTDC-632F:
1) "MTDC-632F, second sheet, side view of the Handle "2", delete the "12 REF" dimension without replacement."
2)"MTDC-632F, sheet 2, delete all +/- 1/16 cross-section diameter tolerances and replace with +1/4, -1/8 cross-section diameter tolerances."
 
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