G10 vs Carbon Fiber strength- Is there a definitive answer?

jux t

jux t

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For a knife handle scale, which is tougher, which is stronger, which is more resistant to impacts, chipping, and deformation? I've searched around the various threads on this topic, and have yet to find anything definitive. The conversations seem to always steer toward which material people favor, and more or less conclude that both are simply strong enough.

My main questions:
1. Suppose you have 2 slabs of equal size, G10 and CF. If equal pressure were applied to the middle of each, which would break (not just bend) first?
2. If both slabs were dropped from the same height (say, 20 feet) onto concrete, which would suffer the most damage?

From what I've read, there are different types of both material. I suppose for the sake of this thread, I'm asking about the average G10 used on knives, as well as the average woven carbon fiber used on knives (if there even is an average woven CF composition, I don't know much about CF.)

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Edit: If there is a big enough difference between the various possible compositions of both, as some suggest, then what about the strongest/toughest G10 vs the strongest/toughest carbon fiber?
 
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I'm no expert by any means. But both are made of layers of fiber (glass fibers for g10, and carbon fibers for CF) then layered and mixed with resin/epoxy and cured under high pressure.

So just based off numbers CF threads are much stronger that glass thread. .

In practical use, I've never really been able to tell any practical difference between the two, ymmv..
 
Corton93 said:
I'm no expert by any means. But both are made of layers of fiber (glass fibers for g10, and carbon fibers for CF) then layered and mixed with resin/epoxy and cured under high pressure.

So just based off numbers CF threads are much stronger that glass thread. .

In practical use, I've never really been able to tell any practical difference between the two, ymmv..
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However, you never see linerless G10 handles, like you do with CF. That should be a hint to the strength alone.
 
K.O.D. said:
However, you never see linerless G10 handles, like you do with CF. That should be a hint to the strength alone.
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Actually you do, like the Spyderco Siren.

For the OP, I think the largest difference is weight, not "strength". Actual mechanical properties will depend on the exact material, I'm guessing.

The fact that some material is sold as Carbon Fiber but is actually G10 (for example, some blue and red "CF" scales that I have) doesn't help.
 
Both G10 and CF are more than adequately stiff and strong for knife grips, plus usually they have embedded steel liners. They also have a natural lubricity so lubing the pivot isn't really necessary.
 
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Unfortunately you can't just say to compare a slab of g10 and a slab of cf because they aren't standardized or constant in manufacture. I'm not sure why you would call the average because the range of both are so large.

For example, weave cf is certainly different in strength than shred cf.

For another, Spyderco puts more layers of glass weave in the Military 's g10 than standard g10 has to bump up the strength and rigidity to counteract the size and lack of liners.
 
kreole said:
Unfortunately you can't just say to compare a slab of g10 and a slab of cf because they aren't standardized or constant in manufacture. I'm not sure why you would call the average because the range of both are so large.

For example, weave cf is certainly different in strength than shred cf.

For another, Spyderco puts more layers of glass weave in the Military 's g10 than standard g10 has to bump up the strength and rigidity to counteract the size and lack of liners.
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I’m aware there are varying compositions with both G10 and CF.

Maybe the question should be:

Which is stronger and tougher in regards to my original questions: the strongest, toughest G10, or the strongest, toughest Carbon Fiber?
 
helobite said:
As a general rule, discontinuous E glass, that is fiberglass, is not as strong as discontinuous carbon fibers. The resin used is very important for strength and we don't know either. Continuous fibers are stronger than discontinuous fiber resins.

Introduction to Composite Materials
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Can you offer insight on how G10 and CF (used in knife scales) would behave under pressure if both are using the resin/composition that results in their ultimate strength and toughness?
 
As a general but incomplete answer to your question, carbon fiber composite will usually be significantly stronger and stiffer (along the fiber directions), and a little bit lighter, than glass fiber composite.

Toughness is going to be more difficult to answer, and I imagine it will depend heavily on the fiber volume and the matrix materials used.

Edited to add: the importance of the direction of loading for an anisotropic material like G10/CF can't really be overstated, and it would be worth glancing at the book sample that helobite posted if you're unfamiliar with that concept.
 
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Real CF is stronger than G10. However I am suspicious of some of the stuff that is called CF. I don’t think knife scales are often the same CF F1 cars are built out of, especially if made in China.
 
The real question is, "Is there enough difference to make a difference?" I rather doubt it. Anything will break if you work hard enough at it, and I have knives that are 80 years old with leather handles, and some old bone or Delrin scales that are still functional and attractive. I believe the issue is more about marketing than function. I would certainly not let the two choices of handle choices mentioned above be the deciding factor in knife selection.
 
The material strength in much more important when you are making handles for a folder, btw.
 
I get the feeling that there is G10 and then there is G10. Beyond the quality of the milling, it just feels like some companies are using a better quality product than others, but maybe it really is all just a matter of milling. I'd take G10 over carbon fiber for a heavy work knife, like something I was planning to use hard in the military, a warehouse, fishing/boating, or yardwork (although the lighter weight would definitely be a consideration in the military). For most people's use, they're not going to notice the difference in strength between the two materials. They'll likely notice the weight and price difference more. G10 is better at handling wet environments, so that's a consideration for some people. Carbon fiber isn't flammable like G10 is, but again if you're in a position where your EDC catching fire can happen, you probably have bigger immediate problems going on, since your hair and clothing will likely ignite first. With carbon fiber you also have to be on the look out for the companies that put a wafer thin slab over top of what their handles are actually made from, to make the knife look more expensive than it is.

I tend to prefer Micarta for most knives, unless it's one I plan to use in/on the water, because it looks and tends to feel better than a lot of G10 (although you'd swear the G10 on the latest Cold Steel AD10 was actually Micarta). For very heavy work and getting beaten on, FRN, Zytol, and the rest of the plastic Ken Doll feel handles are actually very good, provided the handle isn't too smooth. If it is too smooth, it's a good excuse to buy some new scales and/or if it's a fixed blade you can just break out the hockey tape.
 
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