Gemini

I will have two tables at the OKCA in Eugene, OR in April, and will be there for a week.

You can address my manners in person,then if you would like to.

I was letting Dr. Darom know that if he was planning on attending the AKI that I had plans to continue this DISCUSSION there, not implying anything else.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
No offense was taken Mr. Steven Garsson. I didn't even hint in that direction
Your rude and sharp tongue manners may seem very clever but they were
treated as a joke by the many makers and collectors to whom I sent this link today.
I think I agree with them.

After your comments on flatness and pancakes concerning Don's knife,
what could be expected from you concerning Chantal Gilbert?

I shall be at the AKI but do not think that I would be very interested in
meeting you. And this is the first time in my life that I have said this to
anyone........

Also, Thanks Frank H. for your sensitivity..........

Be well all
David
 
David and I met through another Knife forum several years ago and became "close" (albeit long distance), good friends. Last year David was kind enough to ask me to join him as his partner in the new book.

Our responsibilities are split, with David bearing the brunt of the burden by handling all the creative and overseeing the production and quality control. I have been charged with contacting and working out the arrangements with most of the makers (with nearly 100 makers, this has been no small task). I am also responsible for a portion of the text.

When David and I first spoke he made it quite clear that there was little if any money to be made...that we'd be in it for the pure joy of bringing such a project to life. When I saw the enumerated expenses and the projected "profit margin" (if you can call it that) I quickly understood what he meant by "little money"...In fact, since we first began, the costs have gone up even higher! If any of you knew just how very small the projected margin is, I think you'd be quite shocked!

To produce a nearly 300 page, full-color, hard bound, printed in Italy, book of this caliber is a very expensive undertaking. And doing such a short print run means that we're "paying through the nose"...

To put things in perspective, the knife annual (Knives 2005), produced by Krause publications (publishers of Blade) is a paper back with only 8 pages of color...the rest is printed in black and white on near-newspaper quality text.... And they do a much larger print run, and yet they need to retail the book for $23.95 in order to make a profit. We haven't determined a final price, but the new book will probably sell for approximately $50. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that there's not going be a lot of profit to be made by either of us.

So if anybody even suspects, that we're in this for the money, well........you get the idea.

David has singlehandedly raised the bar on the genre...and it'll be a long time (if ever) that someone will come along with his extraordinary level of talent and dedication, who's willing to all but donate their time for such a wonderful cause...to raise public awareness of what we do, and in the process present our work in the most loving, caring way imagineable.

There is no other venue to be found anywhere, where a knifemaker can have his work shown in such a way, by someone who truly, deeply loves the craft...and the craftsmen.

Dennis Greenbaum
 
Ok, now I have to eat mung, in the parlance of my crew.

Some additional information has been provided by parties that shall remain unnamed.

First, my issues:

1. I am not a big fan of Mr. Cowles' work, but respect it for what it is.

2. The makers included in the first two books DID have to contribute featured knives to be included in the books. This bothers me, in that it is more like paid advertising than it is altruistic, and done for the joy of producing a quality book, more than anything else.

I publicly apologize to Dr. Darom and Mr. Cowles for my callous choice of words. "Extortion" and "scummy" were not the right words to use and I sincerely regret that choice.

As I said before, the books ARE quality books, and I hope that all serious collectors choose to purchase them. They are a wealth of information, and fun to read as well. I look forward to the third book.

Part of my problem is that people choose to regard books such as these as The Bible of Knife Collecting, regardless of this being the intent or not. As a close friend pointed out, one could argue for days as to who is qualified to be featured in such books, and even then, nothing might be accomplished.

My conclusion that this was entered into as money making enterprise was wrong. I would say that printing in Hong Kong would probably save a fair amount of money, but this would be the choice of the author, not mine.

I do not frequently apologize, but I try to admit when I am wrong, and I don't backpedal. I am publicly doing this because I have erred, but, as I said before, I have no agenda, and no "bias". I just did not have all my facts, correctly.

At the very least, I hope that those who purchase and read the books do so with additional knowledge, and make their own decisions, based upon the information, as presented.

It was never my intention to denigrate the quality of the books, and the information that they contained, nor the quality of the photographs.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
I've learned from many of your posts Steven, and though the thread took the "grand tour", the authors ended up getting more good news out there than would have happened otherwise. Maybe not comfortable but the conversation brought out detail we wouldn't have had otherwise.

Since the thread started out on Don's knife, Don if I had the "pry loose money" this month, a piece crafted like yours there would be a nice thing for my great great grandchildren to admire someday.

Frank H.
 
Thanks Dennis, You put things in the correct proportion with your
easy way of doing things nice and pleasant. I was too emotionally
upset to do this properly.

Steven, since I got to know you through this thread, I too may have
begun with misconceptions. Your apologies are accepted and I hope
we do actually get to shake hands over a cup of coffee in San Diego........

Be well everyone,
David (ddd)
 
Now everyone (or at least one person) go buy a knife from Don and maybe a copy of the book. :)
 
I love Don's work, though I don't own any of his knives (yet). :)

I am definitely going to buy these books when I get the chance, and I'm glad this thread got me more interested in them.

Steven, I'm glad you admitted you were wrong about some of the things you said, but honestly, they never should have been said in the first place, don't you know that by now? Tact and sensitivity are both virtues, I'd like to see you become a student of them as well. :) Being considerate of other's feelings is a good thing, not a weakness.

To start out by throwing negativity into Don's thread saying his work leaves you flatter than a pancake, honestly, even you can see this wasn't appropriate and was in fact insulting, can't you? What does it gain, who does it help, how is it constructive?

Don's knives obviously won't appeal to everyone, no maker can appeal to everyone, but really, if you don't like it, isn't it just best to not say anything, than to insult Don, his work and pretty much everyone else who read this thread? It goes without saying that Don's knives won't appeal to everyone, so then, why say it?

We discussed this once before, a while back, there's a time and place for constructive criticism, but it seems you just like to criticize, whether it's constructive or not.

I'm sorry to be so harsh, but this time, I'm going to call it like I see it too.
 
Hi Don,

I think you are a wonderful Knifemaker.

In addition, you are one of the nicest people that I have met since I started my business in 1999.

You have made user knives for me and they have performed very well.

This Gemini knife of yours is stunning. If it is still available for sale, I would like to have it for my personal collection. Please contact me at your convenience.

Best regards,

Neil
 
Great knife Don, great materials, and great engraving. I have one of Don's knives and use it quite a bit. I've always been impressed with its performance. What I really like about the knife is its portability. It's every bit as easy to carry as a folder.

One of these days I'll have take make the fourty five minute drive to Royal Oak ;).

Matt
 
I am very pleased to report that after a short email correspondence with Don, the Gemini knife now belongs to me!.

Don was kind enough to get back to me even though he is out of town for a few days.

As a dealer, I do not often pay retail for any knives, but I was happy to pay Don his full price for this stunning piece.

I would offer to take a picture and post it for you guys, but how can I ever compete with the beautiful work that Coop does?

Take care, Neil
 
Megalobyte said:
I love Don's work, though I don't own any of his knives (yet). :)

I am definitely going to buy these books when I get the chance, and I'm glad this thread got me more interested in them.

Steven, I'm glad you admitted you were wrong about some of the things you said, but honestly, they never should have been said in the first place, don't you know that by now? Tact and sensitivity are both virtues, I'd like to see you become a student of them as well. :) Being considerate of other's feelings is a good thing, not a weakness.

To start out by throwing negativity into Don's thread saying his work leaves you flatter than a pancake, honestly, even you can see this wasn't appropriate and was in fact insulting, can't you? What does it gain, who does it help, how is it constructive?

Don's knives obviously won't appeal to everyone, no maker can appeal to everyone, but really, if you don't like it, isn't it just best to not say anything, than to insult Don, his work and pretty much everyone else who read this thread? It goes without saying that Don's knives won't appeal to everyone, so then, why say it?

We discussed this once before, a while back, there's a time and place for constructive criticism, but it seems you just like to criticize, whether it's constructive or not.

I'm sorry to be so harsh, but this time, I'm going to call it like I see it too.
Click to expand...

Dr. Darom, thank you for accepting my apology, it was not expected.

Ari,

We sort of decided, as a group, a while ago, that if it was a collector posting his newest acquisition, that we would either say nice things, or shut up. Which, for the most part, I have. Makers posting pictures were more fair game, as this is what they do professionally.

I am very surprised that you don't have the two Darom books. I thought that you were a serious collector of knives, and these books are "must-haves" for the serious collector, that is fact, not opinion.

I made my apologies in this thread, pointing out that I admit when I am wrong, and apologize VERY rarely, and was going to leave it at that. You had to stir it up by bringing it to the top. Don could have called me a few choice names publicly or privately, but did not. I don't care if you are harsh, but you are DIRECTLY to blame if more feelings get hurt by this posting.

Tact and sensitivity were terms and ideas invented in response to the actions and words of people like me. While they may be a virtue, and I use them with my wife, my disgust with the usual "Mutual Admiration Society" and backslapping that had become (and still is, to this day) somewhat prevalent in Customs is too much to suffer silently. Being considerate is fine and well, but, with rare exceptions, there is no balance. Every maker posting every knife is not perfect, but you would not know that by the comments. That does nobody a positive service, and bothers me, so I am the self-appointed contrarian, since no one else seemed to be applying for the job, except Joss, sometimes. :)

8 years ago, there was a very strong trend for "newbie" knifemakers who SHOULD have been charging $300.00 to $500.00 MAX for their wares to start slapping Damascus/pearl/jewels on knives and jack the prices up to around $750.00. The "veteran" makers already charging this much looked around, and started putting their prices up into the $1,000 range. The entire market got messed around with, and there was very little that I said publicly, and misread the situation as a trend, and I was wrong, and got screwed a few times, and I am not ever going to remain silent in a similar situation, which is kind of what we have here. :mad:

Without stomping all over feelings here, Don makes a "fairly" nice knife and it costs more than I think it should, sometimes, a lot more. He frequently posts pictures of his new knives, and they can be accessed via his web page and purchased there. The example of Neil Ostroff's purchase is a perfect example of my point.

It has been frequently mentioned that Don's knives are not for everyone, but no one says why that is. Actually, there are probably just enough people that Don's knives ARE for to keep things moving along nicely for him. I hear very few, if any, people ever talk smack about Kit Carson knives, for example, and there is a reason for that. Kit's knives ARE pretty much for everybody, when you can get them.

If Don can use the Forums as a venue to advertise and facilitate the sale his wares as a Registered User, than I am certainly within my right as a Platinum Member with a focused interest in collecting custom knives at fair prices to opine where I see fit. If it is not nice or kind, so be it. If other makers, whose work I like very much, feel inspired to start popping out overpriced, very small fixed blade knives with pocket sheaths and presets in the ricasso, I will know where to point the blame, and at least will have vented my basic problem with it, BEFORE it becomes an issue.

Quality may or may not be part of the problem, but the price definitely is, and that bugs me, because it reminds me EXACTLY of what happened before.

Constructive is a relative term. I wish Don no personal ill will, and as said above, was going to leave this one alone, and try to be NICER, but Ari just couldn't let it go. I can have plenty more to say on the subject should it get personal, but I am prepared to read the postings of Don/his defenders, and get called names, and have this STILL be my last posting on the subject, as long as everybody is civil.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Kohai999 said:
...my disgust with the usual "Mutual Admiration Society" and backslapping that had become (and still is, to this day) somewhat prevalent in Customs is too much to suffer silently.
Click to expand...
I tend to agree with that (although I do suffer silently myself, most of the time ;) )

...I am the self-appointed contrarian, since no one else seemed to be applying for the job, except Joss, sometimes. :)
Click to expand...
I take that as a compliment (and I know you meant it that way - thanks).
 
"I am prepared to read the postings of Don/his defenders, and get called names, and have this STILL be my last posting on the subject, as long as everybody is civil."

--

I hope I'm civil here, Steven! In all the content of your post just above, as usual, I learned more about the market and custom knives in general than I knew before Steven, and I respect that you know your stuff and have the "horseradish" to speak your mind.

Re: Ari "bringing it to the top again", he posted 2 hours after the last guy had, your reply was 5 days after his note, it probably would have drifted into the archives with Neil's nice chapter of buying the knife and being happy with it being the "last word", though if I were in your shoes I'd be tempted to reply as well, and likely you were away for a spell.

There's all different types of folks, I understand your horseradish Steven, also I very much understand Ari's points.

Hopefully we can let this one go back where it was, on the cool note of somebody being really happy with that knife, and with the interesting angle that the fella saw fit to pay the maker's asking / public price, leave 'er at that. "Sharp" lookin' piece, Don and Neil, and great photos Coop.

And I'll keep learnin' Steve, and enjoying your photos Ari!

Frank H.
 
One of the reasons I buy Don's knives is the superb workmanship. I have a number of his knives and there are a few things that I consistently notice about them. Don uses a dove tailed bolster that fits the knife blade so well that many times there is no way to distinguish the blade from the bolsters. Fit and finish like that takes time, mastery of a craft and is worth money to some people. I have a Bark River OMF knife that is about the same size and shape of one of Don's knives, but costs about 1/6 the price of Don's knives. The Bark River has some nice ironwood pinned and epoxied to the handles. Nice work and very functional. It also looks pretty. Don's handle has the superbly fitted bolsters, a tapered tang and a perfectly matched liner backing up the scales. If you look at the top of the knife blade the tapering makes the knife perfectly symetrical from the front to the back.


Both knives function in a comparable manner and carry about the same. I used both knives today to cut up some cardboard and both worked nicely. The difference is that Don's knives do all that and are also works of art. I would not have paid $600 for a Bark River, but I was pleased to pay that much for one of Don's knives. To me, they are worth that price because of the materials, workmanship and art value. As an aside, have you priced first quality engraving recently? Artistic engraving can easily double the cost of a knife.

I hesitated before I added this note to the thread. One part of me wanted to let the thread die. The other part wants to defend one of the nicest men I know and someone I consider a master craftsman. If anyone deserves praise, support and high prices, its Don.

I will return to the sidelines.
 
STeven said:
I don't care if you are harsh, but you are DIRECTLY to blame if more feelings get hurt by this posting.
Click to expand...

Apparently it's my fault if any feelings get hurt from here on in, funny, for the life of me, I can't recall insulting anybody. :rolleyes:

I responded with my feelings a couple of hours after the last post, while the thread was still active, you rekindled it many days later because you wouldn't let it go, so, who is it that really didn't allow it to die. You say I couldn't let it go, and act as if I was repeatedly attacking you with further posts, and in doing so, kept the thread going, hmmmm, I posted one time, once, that's it, and as the thread was still active, hardly what you are claiming STeven, then you replied, days later, because you wouldn't let it go. I think we all know who is squarely responsible for any feelings that get hurt in this thread.

STeven, of course I know your feelings on the issue, you feel that every time a maker posts a new knife, people either praise it, or say nothing, and thus makers and collectors both get a false sense of what's good and what's not, though I don't agree that this somehow allows makers to unjustly inflate their prices, and I don't think the intelligent collector is fooled by it either, it's pretty obvious which knives generate true interest and are hot, and those that at best generate a very few polite responses and the thread dies fairly quickly.

So, I stand by my statement, starting out this thread by criticizing Don and insulting him publicly, is not constructive, it doesn't really help anybody, if you think Don's knives are overpriced, don't buy one, if they were truly overpriced, Don would be looking into a career change wouldn't he? Of course not everybody will like every knife, but I still fail to see how posting in a maker's thread in which he posts pics of a new knife, saying in an insulting tone that you don't personally like it is constructive and helpful to anybody. We know not everyone will like Don's knife, but what purpose does it serve to make a point of letting everybody know that STeven doesn't like it, who STeven are you really helping here? It's not as if Don is some sort of scam artist, making crap knives, using cheap steel and fake pearl, trying to scam collectors out of their money, in which case a warning to unsavvy collectors might be of value, his knives are excellent knives, there's no warning needed here, is there? Many, many collectors love them, myself included, you admitted they were well made, so what again are you accomplishing by "outing" him, or warning us, who are you to determine, or even influence what we should like or buy? How does letting us all know in no uncertain and insulting terms, that you don't like Don's knives, help us, or collectors in general, how?

I apologize in advance for all of the feelings I have now allowed to be hurt by responding again to STeven. :rolleyes:

One last thing, STeven, I think that if the rep point system were still being used, you'd have gotten a fair amount of red Chicklets over this post, and lost some of the many green Chicklet's you had before, you know, the ones you Photoshopped into your Avatar that you apparently couldn't bear to lose.
 
Megalobyte said:
so, kept the thread going, hmmmm, I posted one time, once, that's it, and as the thread was still active, hardly what you are claiming STeven, then you replied, days later, because you wouldn't let it go. I think we all know who is squarely responsible for any feelings that get hurt in this thread.

One last thing, STeven, I think that if the rep point system were still being used, you'd have gotten a fair amount of red Chicklets over this post, and lost some of the many green Chicklet's you had before, you know, the ones you Photoshopped into your Avatar that you apparently couldn't bear to lose.
Click to expand...

I was away from all forms of communication at the Sword 2005 Ashokan Seminar, started at 4:45 am on Thursday, 9/15/05 until Monday night. If I had seen your posting sooner, I would have responded sooner.

Nordic Viking made the avatar for me, Ari, chicklets really didn't mean that much to me. It was an offering of friendship, so I used it.

I hope that I get to meet you face-to-face, someday. This year, I was at Blade and Ashokan, on the East Coast. I doubt I will be out that way anytime soon, but let me know what shows you are doing, and I will see if there are any that appeal to me.

Be well,

STeven Garsson
 
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