Gransfors Bruks Question - American Felling Axe in multiple configurations????

[Hale Storm]

I have the big double bit and the small forest axe. Looking to get the American Felling axe and I see on the web that it comes in multiple configurations with curved and straight handles in different lengths.

Anyone have these different versions and can recommend one over the other? Thoughts? Reviews? Positives and negatives? I'm talking specifically about the American Felling axe model form Gransfors Bruks.

Thanks

 

[Axe nut]

Have one with the 31 in handle, the axe shows the quality workmanship expected from gransfors. It excells as a general purpose axe, I've felled, bucked, and limbed with it, it comes back asking for more, holding its edge all the while.the only thing I would recommending to be careful in hard wood suck as oak maple cherry ect if you hit a hidden knot it will rattle your teeth and slightly roll the edge.

 

[Double Ott]

I think helve choice is a strictly personal.

Tom

 

[300Six]

I think helve choice is a strictly personal.
Tom

I was rubber-necking G-B products at my nearby Lee Valley Tools store a few days ago and was horrified at the cost of these otherwise ordinary implements. You could outfit yourself with almost every make and model of vintage American for the same money.

 

[EdmontonAxe]

I was rubber-necking G-B products at my nearby Lee Valley Tools store a few days ago and was horrified at the cost of these otherwise ordinary implements. You could outfit yourself with almost every make and model of vintage American for the same money.

No. Not even close. Perhaps if you have a source of free handles, get lucky at a garage sale you can put together a few axes for the price of one GB. I'm not in a location that traditionally had a strong lumber industry, but I've been seeking vintage axes for years on end with only a bit of success. Locating handles locally also isn't easy or cheap. Plus, while enjoyable, it takes a lot of time which has a cost associated with it. You can buy a GB and have a near perfect top quality axe without much hassle at all.

I like longer bent handles - if I was to buy a GB Felling Axe, it'd be 35" bent.

 

[Hale Storm]

Originally Posted by 300Six
I was rubber-necking G-B products at my nearby Lee Valley Tools store a few days ago and was horrified at the cost of these otherwise ordinary implements. You could outfit yourself with almost every make and model of vintage American for the same money.

Hmmm, other than the largest models, most GB's can be had for under 200 bucks and used can sometimes be found for great prices. The smaller versions of hatchets run just over the $100 mark. Hand forged in Sweden by highly skilled old world craftsman from a company that has been forging axes for over 100 years. Each maker stamps the head with his initials. That is a sign of pride in your work. I'm definitely pro American but having owned a few axes and actually used them for their intended purpose, I haven't found any that perform like the GB's. At least not yet.
Having said all that, I only have two other opinions to offer. My dad helped me learn long ago that if you're going to use a tool, then get the best you can afford. Sometimes you really do get what you pay for and a quality tool will save you time, work, and money in the long run. Secondly, how easy is it to pay the same price or more for a quality knife (and how many of us do that all the time - I'm guilty)?

I like the bent handle for a single bit as well. Now the only question is 31" or 35". I'm 6'1" and swinging the axe is no issue for me, so I guess the 35" is on my list.
I would love to see a comparison pic of the Small Forest Axe, The Scandinavian, and The American Felling in 31 and 35 all next to each other.

 

[Square_peg]

I was rubber-necking G-B products at my nearby Lee Valley Tools store a few days ago and was horrified at the cost of these otherwise ordinary implements. You could outfit yourself with almost every make and model of vintage American for the same money.

No. Not even close. You can buy a GB and have a near perfect top quality axe without much hassle at all.

I'll side with 300Six on this one. Though I suppose it does depend somewhat on your location. I live in big timber country and I find plenty of good vintage axes. But anyone anywhere can buy at internet auctions.

In any case all of the modern GB axes I've seen have the customary flat cheeks of a European axe. This geometry sticks badly when bucking or felling. Geometry is the #1 reason to buy vintage. Better steel is the #2 reason.

 

[SC T100]

I like the bent handle for a single bit as well. Now the only question is 31" or 35". I'm 6'1" and swinging the axe is no issue for me, so I guess the 35" is on my list.
I would love to see a comparison pic of the Small Forest Axe, The Scandinavian, and The American Felling in 31 and 35 all next to each other.

Bent or straight is fine either way for me. I'm just about your height and I like 36" (35" for the G-B) handles. It keeps the bit out of your shin better if you miss or have a glancing hit, and provides more power for splitting duties. If you won't be doing any splitting, I would think the 31" would provide a little more control and accuracy when felling and bucking, but I can't confirm that from my own experiences...all my full sizes are 36", and I have the GB Small Forest Axe and hatchets for smaller duties. It's a fantastic axe and I have no regrets purchasing it. Variety is the spice of life...who says you can't have a GB and vintage axes. That's what I did! Big full-size vintage American axes and a super high quality small axe from Sweden...my bases are covered.

 

[A Visitor]

Hand forged in Sweden by highly skilled old world craftsman from a company that has been forging axes for over 100 years. Each maker stamps the head with his initials. That is a sign of pride in your work.

I love this. Especially eye opening when I watched the owner of GB/ Wetterlings discussing how he changed the company (GB) when he took over. He bought them in bankruptcy, when the forge operators were paid by piece work. They were the highest paid and would send rough heads to the Grinders who would have to spend much time prepping them - making less. A businessman with zero tool experience retooled the presses and changed how everyone was paid. By demanding higher quality pressing, he cut out much of the grinding and head painting that was eating up profit. Boutique axes are as much a product of marketing / branding as workmanship and material choice.

 

[EdmontonAxe]

I'll side with 300Six on this one. Though I suppose it does depend somewhat on your location. I live in big timber country and I find plenty of good vintage axes. But anyone anywhere can buy at internet auctions.

In any case all of the modern GB axes I've seen have the customary flat cheeks of a European axe. This geometry sticks badly when bucking or felling. Geometry is the #1 reason to buy vintage. Better steel is the #2 reason.

I don't want to derail this thread, but I still think this is out to lunch - perhaps in part due to my location. The average price of a GB at Lee Valley is somewhere around 160-170. Call it 175 with tax. I can pick one up on my lunch hour without any hassle. If you or 300Six can outfit me with almost every model of a vintage American make for $175, I'll gladly pay that. One of each GB model at Lee Valley would come in north of $2000 - but there are a whole lot of makes and models of vintage American. Even if I don't expect 300Six to find me 3 nice Black Ravens, there are many Kelly's that would be on that list. I still don't think it would be possible, even if all the searching time (let alone refurbishing and sharpening time) was free.

Vintage is good - I have more vintage tools and axes than I do modern. But the simple fact of the matter is that it takes a lot of time and effort and money to get a vintage axe performing at the same level as a GB. I think we can debate the steel quality (and I'm sure it has been debated to death on this forum already) but I'd put the proprietary GB carbon steel and proprietary processing against any vintage american, and that the high 50s HRC is ideal for an axe bit. Geometry is a separate issue - my time near trees is mostly soft conifers and poplar and isn't spent felling, so GB style cheeks work for me. There are very few people that regret buying a GB.

To comment that you're horrified at the cost of GB axes is one thing, $100-200 means more to some people than others, but to make outrageous claims is another. Neither is relevant (nor is this post of mine so far) to the original question.

I don't have GB felling axes. I have a 'vintage' GB from the 70's felling axe on a bent 36" helve. I have 30-32" axes with similar head geometry. While I don't often use an axe for felling - that is still chainsaw work for me - I prefer the longer handle for heavier axes.

 

[300Six]

Boutique axes are as much a product of marketing / branding as workmanship and material choice.

I too am enjoying this! The UTube clip on the making of H-B products shows it to be hugely labour intensive. In order to compete in world markets Walters Axe of Canada chose to mechanize it's operation already in 1947. This uniformly improved the quality, reduced the waste and vastly reduced the amount of time and effort required. In the mid-60s with a staff of 35 workers they were producing 1000 axes per day. Morley Walters was a university graduate of engineering and went forward for 60+ years entirely in the business of making affordable top quality axes, none of which would have had to command $200 in order to make a profit!

 

[A Visitor]

but I'd put the proprietary GB carbon steel and proprietary processing against any vintage american

I also get a kick out of the use of "Propriety" in marketing. In their own pubs they list the steel "It is a plain carbon steel very close to 1055 or EN9, for sure 0.55% Carbon." The quench and tempering process is listed as " a quick cooling in cold running water. Then the axe head is annealed: kept for 60 minutes in an oven that is 195°C."
Nothing magical about that, the use of the word "annealed" may be their term for tempering or more misinformation.
I recently saw a post describing the special order steel being made from recycled scrap. If you understand the process of making steel - that isn't a big deal. But, it would diminish their marketing to some if they realized the magical steel is made the same way as cheap china/ india imports...maybe even in the same mills lol.
All that being said, I like their hatchets and wish the US manufacturers would produce similar models. The handles feel good (using hickory instead of euro wood choices) but aren't widely available / standard and expensive.

 

[EdmontonAxe]

I also get a kick out of the use of "Propriety" in marketing. In their own pubs they list the steel "It is a plain carbon steel very close to 1055 or EN9, for sure 0.55% Carbon." The quench and tempering process is listed as " a quick cooling in cold running water. Then the axe head is annealed: kept for 60 minutes in an oven that is 195°C."
Nothing magical about that, the use of the word "annealed" may be their term for tempering or more misinformation.
I recently saw a post describing the special order steel being made from recycled scrap. If you understand the process of making steel - that isn't a big deal. But, it would diminish their marketing to some if they realized the magical steel is made the same way as cheap china/ india imports...maybe even in the same mills lol.
All that being said, I like their hatchets and wish the US manufacturers would produce similar models. The handles feel good (using hickory instead of euro wood choices) but aren't widely available / standard and expensive.

I'm more than decade beyond my last materials engineering/metallurgy course, but I think we can agree that GB hasn't provided the web with full disclosure on the composition and processing of their axe heads. It has been reported to be 0.54, .55, and .56 carbon in various places, I haven't seen the GB publication you refer to but .55 is consistent with what I have read. But no word on how much silicon/manganese/vanadium/chromium/phosphorus/sulfur. Overall, I'm not sure how much these other elements matter although it clearly matters to those in the tool/knife/axe industry. And the hardening/annealing/tempering as described doesn't add up. I can't recall the austenite/pearlite/martensite transitions, but GB produces relatively hard bits differentially heated with apparently common steel - which they freely disclose as recycled scrap from Ovako. If they use an unknown steel and no one is certain how it is treated, I think 'proprietary' is an appropriate term.

It might not be a supersteel, but I would put it up against any vintage steel or even council's 5160 spring steel.

Again, I'm not detracting from the quality of vintage American axes, just making it clear that in my opinion GB is a fine product and that the OP won't go wrong in getting one, despite the detractors based on marketing and pricing. Also note that Walter's have been out of business for 40+ years. Perhaps they should have worked on their marketing and branding instead of mass producing.

 

[A Visitor]

It might not be a supersteel, but I would put it up against any vintage steel or even council's 5160 spring steel.

Fair statement, I wouldn't lump all vintage steel in the same pile either. I 'm a bigger fan of the marketing aspects of these companies than the products. As a casual user I appreciate performance more than require it. Have to shake my head every time I see someone posting about sending a boutique axe/ hatchet back because it dulled or nicked in use.

 

[SC T100]

But, it would diminish their marketing to some if they realized the magical steel is made the same way as cheap china/ india imports...maybe even in the same mills lol.

Their axe steel isn't imported...it is made in Sweden from recycled steel, but they note on their website it's a proprietary grade or quality. I think proprietary is appropriate as it's their spec'd grade steel, which is then put through their process...there's a lot they don't put online. Your example is sort of like saying KFC just mixes spices they get from the supermarket, and any spice mix will do. That may be true in essence, but the amounts, mixture, and process are their secret to arrive at a consistent quality of product. And from first hand experience, their steel really is pretty amazing in sharpness and edge holding...better than some of my vintage axes.

 

[SC T100]

Have to shake my head every time I see someone posting about sending a boutique axe/ hatchet back because it dulled or nicked in use.

Haha, I haven't seen that, but hopefully they will learn to sharpen the axe once it's been used.

 

[A Visitor]

I'm glad they don't import steel, not that it would make any difference with todays technology and appropriate quality control in the mill. I also like the whole green aspects of GB/ Wetterlings in general.
I think there has always been differences in axes from company to company and within company "lines" of axes. Maybe someone here can post a picture or show a "Vintage" GB/ Wetterlings axe to compare with other vintage and even their current lines.
There are many reasons why the US and the European axe industry dwindled to its current state. One would certainly be liability , especially in the US. When you have axe makers like Hultafors not exporting to the US because of our product liability laws that says a lot. The major complaint heard about vintage vs current production in the performance side is edge holding, followed by finish. I'm sure the US producers could address both issues if they saw a profit in it. Maybe they should market in Europe and sell to all their xenophiles. "Made in America" seems to be making a comeback in marketing also.

 

[SC T100]

I would love to see a comparison pic of the Small Forest Axe, The Scandinavian, and The American Felling in 31 and 35 all next to each other.

I actually think GB has a pic on their website with all of the forest axes lined up on a log. It may not feature each handle length for the felling axe, but it gives a decent perspective.

 

[Square_peg]

'Proprietary' is marketing speak for "we're embarrassed to say what steel we use". Note that Council isn't embarrassed to say what their comparably priced axes are made of.

I would put it up against any vintage steel or even council's 5160 spring steel.

Talk about out to lunch. Even today the USFS spec for axes is,

3.2.1.1 Steel composition. The tool head of each type of ax shall be forged from fully killed plain carbon AISI/
SAE steel containing 0.72 to 0.93 percent carbon, 0.30 to 0.90 percent manganese, not more than 0.040
percent phosphorus, and not more than 0.050 percent sulfur.

Vintage makers regularly met or exceeded this standard. Industry demanded it prior to the chainsaw. Axe makers weren't making toys for boys to go out and get their He-man on with. Lumberman were making big money and they needed their workers equipped the best tools available to stay competitive.

 

[Square_peg]

Maybe someone here can post a picture or show a "Vintage" GB/ Wetterlings axe to compare with other vintage and even their current lines.

They used to know how to make convex cheeks when they had to to be viable in the US market.

Another axe.