Great news, getting my first kabar.

The similarity to ontario's handle styling
is a dead give away of just how similar the Case USMC stack leather handle is .
The overall shape and how deeply it closes in
all the way around the disk pommel..
spd_2017052673328_b.jpg

The handles on camillus version
was rather different too btw.
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/what-do-i-have-here.1283328/
Fyi Wartime camillus...
CamillusKnives2War1.jpg

CamillusKnives2War2.jpg
 
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BladeScout said:
Nope. A bayonet mounts on a rifle.
Maybe you are referring to some WWII knives being dubbed 'combat/utility' knives.
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That's what the original Kabar was as I understand it. Honestly, I'm not a fan of this design regardless of the use.
 
22-rimfire said:
That's what the original Kabar was as I understand it. Honestly, I'm not a fan of this design regardless of the use.
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Nope. Not sure where you got bayonet info from.
The 'orginal' Ka-Bar was an Alaskan trappers knife, which the owner used to 'kill a bar,' (bear)' as he wrote in a letter to the company. The company was then re-named Ka-Bar. 'Ka' for Kodiak (species of the bear) and 'Bar' for bear. This according to Ka-Bar lore.
 
This is from a manual written by the grandson of one the original owners of Union Cutlery, which became KA-BAR. First they just used the trademark "Ka-Bar" for a product line, and later changed the name of the company to KA-BAR.
4HbKjoH.png
 
BladeScout said:
Nope. Not sure where you got bayonet info from.
The 'orginal' Ka-Bar was an Alaskan trappers knife, which the owner used to 'kill a bar,' (bear)' as he wrote in a letter to the company. The company was then re-named Ka-Bar. 'Ka' for Kodiak (species of the bear) and 'Bar' for bear. This according to Ka-Bar lore.
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You aren't telling me anything I don't already know. What are you talking about? I'm talking about the USMC knife which is the topic of this thread. It became known as the Kabar. But we all know that is a brand name.

I remember distinctly that the original could be mounted on a M1 Garand during WWII.
 
Houlahound said:
This is too confusing.
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I think the confusion lies in the name "Kabar". Growing up my dad had a "Kabar" that he carried with the Marines. It was a WWII vintage Camillus USN Mk 2 in a fiber scabbard, but he called it his "Kabar". Every knife that fit the mil-spec (MIL-DTL-202277/1 http://everyspec.com/MIL-SPECS/MIL-SPECS-MIL-DTL/MIL-DTL-20277-1_20513/) was a "Kabar".

In the past many manufacturers have produced knives to that spec for commercial and military use; those knives are often colloquially known as "Kabars" regardless of manufacturer. That being said, there is a manufacturer by the name of KA-BAR (used to be Union Cutlery) that manufactures a knife very close to, but not quite to the current mil-spec.

So, if you want the current mil-spec knife colloquially known as a "Kabar" get the Ontario 498. If you want a more nicely finished knife get the KA-BAR USMC 1217. If you want an actual WWII vintage Mk2 (1219C2) pattern you will want a USMC Mark 2 Combat Knife; Knife, Fighting Utility; or a U.S.N. Mk 2 (if you don't mind having a Navy knife instead of a USMC marked knife) from Camillus, KA-BAR, Robeson, or a couple of other manufacturers I am currently blanking on. The USMC marked ones should have leather sheaths IIRC, as I don't believe the Marines were ever given fiber scabbards.
 
Houlahound said:
Confusing me here with Ontario V Kabar.

Same spec, different company or???

Which actually supplied DOD?
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Kabar brand is nicer but the ontario brand is cheaper so that's what the Corps buys, always the lowest bidder. Kabar, ontario, and I believe camillus; all made them at some point, but the contract got so competitive that it's not lucrative anymore so ontario does it basically for bragging rights. In short: the ontario is issued, but any Marine will tell you the kabar is the real one.

*Edit* no one likes issued gear....
 
22-rimfire said:
You aren't telling me anything I don't already know. What are you talking about? I'm talking about the USMC knife which is the topic of this thread. It became known as the Kabar. But we all know that is a brand name.

I remember distinctly that the original could be mounted on a M1 Garand during WWII.
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No, the bayonet was thiss-l225.jpg
 
22-rimfire said:
You aren't telling me anything I don't already know. What are you talking about? I'm talking about the USMC knife which is the topic of this thread. It became known as the Kabar. But we all know that is a brand name.

I remember distinctly that the original could be mounted on a M1 Garand during WWII.
Click to expand...

Im not telling you anything you dont know but you dont know, what Im talking about. Right.
You seem to be a bit confused about the Ka-Bar and you got your timeline back-aXXwards. The 'USMC knife' did not become the Ka-Bar. The Ka-Bar company made a knife which became synonymous with the knife of the Corps.
The knife which is the topic of this thread was not designed as a bayonet nor could it be mounted on the M1 Garand during WWII no matter how distinctly you remember it.

22-rimfire said:
It was designed as a multi-function utility knife.... bayonet and knife.
Click to expand...
 
NapalmCheese said:
I think the confusion lies in the name "Kabar". Growing up my dad had a "Kabar" that he carried with the Marines. It was a WWII vintage Camillus USN Mk 2 in a fiber scabbard, but he called it his "Kabar". Every knife that fit the mil-spec (MIL-DTL-202277/1 http://everyspec.com/MIL-SPECS/MIL-SPECS-MIL-DTL/MIL-DTL-20277-1_20513/) was a "Kabar".

In the past many manufacturers have produced knives to that spec for commercial and military use; those knives are often colloquially known as "Kabars" regardless of manufacturer. That being said, there is a manufacturer by the name of KA-BAR (used to be Union Cutlery) that manufactures a knife very close to, but not quite to the current mil-spec.

So, if you want the current mil-spec knife colloquially known as a "Kabar" get the Ontario 498. If you want a more nicely finished knife get the KA-BAR USMC 1217. If you want an actual WWII vintage Mk2 (1219C2) pattern you will want a USMC Mark 2 Combat Knife; Knife, Fighting Utility; or a U.S.N. Mk 2 (if you don't mind having a Navy knife instead of a USMC marked knife) from Camillus, KA-BAR, Robeson, or a couple of other manufacturers I am currently blanking on. The USMC marked ones should have leather sheaths IIRC, as I don't believe the Marines were ever given fiber.
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Very good well worded post that should help with the confusion. The only ww2 manufacturer you are missing that I know of is PAL. But there could be others.
 
Glad you weren’t overwhelmed. It’s like an onion. You only needed the first layer and got the whole lesson.
 
effenoam said:
No, the bayonet was thisView attachment 1156255
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Okay, I concede the point on the bayonet issue. :D I have never really been interested in bayonets (US, German, etc.) and I have never been particularly enthralled with the Kabar or Ontario version of the Fighting/Utility knife that was issued. It is only interesting to me because it has some historical significance.

I do have a question.... did soldiers carry two knives? Bayonet and the Kabar utility knife? Doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me.
 
22-rimfire said:
Okay, I concede the point on the bayonet issue. :D I have never really been interested in bayonets (US, German, etc.) and I have never been particularly enthralled with the Kabar or Ontario version of the Fighting/Utility knife that was issued. It is only interesting to me because it has some historical significance.

I do have a question.... did soldiers carry two knives? Bayonet and the Kabar utility knife? Doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me.
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Not sure if they DID but they dont, you only get issued a knife if you dont have a rifle to mount a bayonet on.
 
effenoam said:
Not sure if they DID but they dont, you only get issued a knife if you dont have a rifle to mount a bayonet on.
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How does that work, what role / job are you talking about that requires a fighting knife (for CQB) but doesn't require a rifle?
 
M1 carbines in ww2 had no bayonet lug until 1944. Very few made it into the field. Also Tommy guns had no bayonet.
 
22-rimfire said:
Okay, I concede the point on the bayonet issue...
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Perhaps you might have come across
an experiment sniper version of
an M16 rifle bayonet
from the rock island arsenal
made way back in 1975.
It was a franken knife bayonet
which had a USN mk 2 blade
and fibre scabbard
refitted with a standard m7
bayonet guard and pomel latch....
images


It can be read in the USArmy Infantry Board
Report No. 3533 Test Product Improved knife bayonet document.

Though there has been commercial fakes
put togather ( intentional or not)....
http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/215200-fake-experimental-m7-bayonets/
 
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