Guard on full-tang Bowie?

jaegar

jaegar

Joined
Nov 5, 2004
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280
Howdy,

I've got a buddy that wants me to make a bowie for him. It's not a conventional bowie however, as it has a finger grooved full tang blade. Being a rather large bowie, it's neccessary for it to have a guard on it. Unfortunatly, I'm beat as to how to get one on. I've attatched a rough sketch to better explain my question.

Part A. shows the handle of the knife from the side without any handle scales. The shaded part is the actual tang. Part B. and C. are looking at the finger grooves and the spine, respectively. Again, the shaded area is exposed metal.

Due to the design, there is not enough metal to create a guard out of the tang and place a bolster over it. Because the handle and blade are almost the same width, how do I get a guard to go on and stay on?
I considered slotted guards, but I'd prefer a double-sided guard, so that's kinda out.

Thanks for the help!

~Brian
 

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You could go with a frame handle construction... Certainly not the easiest route and technically not full tang, but might just be your best bet.
 
I thought on such knives they always had the handle tang just a little smaller than the knife, thus the guard would slide over the tang and rest against where the blade started.

The handle then is still full tang, and the guard is still a full guard..
 
The thing to do IMO, is to make the blade wider than the tang. Then cut shoulders out on each side under the ricasso as usual. All four sides wouldn't hurt. Then all you have to do is slot the guard so it fits over the tang and sits squarely on the shoulders. I hope this helps.

Bradley
 
I have always wondered about a way to do this. One thing that I have thought about is making a full guard that is slotted, fixing it into place and then brazing or welding a filler piece of the same materiel into the "slot" before you heat treat and blending it. There is a picture in one of Wayne Goddard's books where a maker welded a stainless guard onto a knife prior to heat treat using a small stick of the guard material as a welding rod. He kinda made an "integral" after the fact, which would make the task of grinding an integral with a choil a bit easier:D Another idea might be to split the top arm of the guard, spread it out and then press it back with a hydraulic press and braze or weld th seam. One of the smiths, maybe Bruce Bump, says that he gets a tight fit on his guards with his press. If you are going with a full tang for "stength" you can also go with the "3/4 tang" like a Randall Model 14 where the top is exposed and you slide the handle on from the bottom.
 
Explain to me more about the frame handle/mortised tang...
Will the tang be visible from the outside of the finished knife? Or is it a hidden tang?

JDM61, I'm doing a true full tang simply because that's what he wants. If it's simply not possible to attatch a guard to that, I'll figure something else out instead.

I might be able to 'cheat' it a little to make the tang thinner than the blade (not thickness - width), but how much of a 'shoulder' would I need to properly set the guard? 1-16" - 1/8" on either side?

The other options sound rather do-able. Unfortunatley I forgot to mention that I'm dealing with a rather 'primitive' knife shop:D I might be able to solder/braze a guard on or something of that sort, but welding is mostly out of the question...

As a result, maybe my next question should be how to attatch a guard in general with a limited shop.

Thanks for the replies guys!

~Brian
 
I remember someone pointing out a frame handle tutorial on Jerry Fisk' site. It was kind of mixed in with some pictures for one of his shows. It clearly showed how he handled the challenge (really nice).
Good luck, Craig
 
The way I do this is to make the blade wider than the handle so that the guard will just slide over the handle up to the shoulders. These shoulders don't have to be much, 3/32" top and bottom is enough. I do not thin the tang so that there is a shoulder on the sides mostly because it creates a stress riser creating a designed breaking point. You can put a distal taper on the tang to aid in sliding the guard on but will still need the top and bottom shoulders. When the knife is done you will have to look real close to see the blade is wider than the handle and so what if it is, it does not look bad. Good Luck!
 
Ok, makes sense...
That's what I'll do then. Now, can anyone point me to a detailed tutorial on actually fastening the guard?

Thanks!
 
Don't really know at this point. I'm not exactly sure what will work.
The blade is D2, and I've got some 302 stainless on hand. Will that work?
 
Ok, that makes sense now...
For the torch, what do I use? I have both a propane torch and an acetylene torch. Does it matter which one I use?
 
jaegar said:
Explain to me more about the frame handle/mortised tang...
Will the tang be visible from the outside of the finished knife? Or is it a hidden tang?
Click to expand...

As I understand it:

A mortised tang is made by cutting a channel for the tang in one or both
of two handle slabs then gluing the slabs together around the tang. It looks
almost like a one piece hidden tang.

A frame handle is made by cutting a piece of material the thickness of the
tang such that the inner part fits to the tang and the outside is the top and
bottom of the handle. Then two other handle slabs are fastened to the
outside of the frame and tang. If the frame piece was made of steel it
could look much like a full tang. Usually the frame is made of a contrasting
non-steel material. I have some plans for a camp knife with a copper frame
and stabilized holly handle in mind for someone...
 
Yes and no...
That's where we get into the 'fun' nature of this project.:rolleyes:

My bud started on the bowie himself a few years back, but burned out on it. The knife really needs some major design changes, so while there is a 'knife' cut out, I'll be taking a good bit more off of the handle and ricasso area. For most purposes, no the knife is not yet cut out.

~Brian
 
While several guys have chimed in about making a framed handle, to me it really defeats the whole purpose of going with a full tang. It's not a full tang anymore. It has the same (real or percieved) drawbacks as an enclosed or mortised tang, and is more complicated to produce at the same time.

My vote would be figure out a way to make the ricasso/guard area wider than the rest of the handle, or use a 3/4 tang as mentioned above, or just go with a mortised or narrow tang.
 
Another solution that works well with a heavy bowie (1/4" spine) is to make the handle about 1/16" thinner than the blade. This creates a 1/32" lip at the ricasso on each side.That allows the guard to slip right up to the blade,and makes a real nice solder joint.The whole tang reduction job is done with a file and is easy if you use your filing jig (the one you use for plunge lines and squaring the shoulders).Just make sure there is a slight distal taper towards the pommel,and that the tang is slightly tapered.With careful filing of the guard slot the guard can end up a force fit at the ricasso.
Stacy
 
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