Guardians of The Lambsfoot!

[r8shell]

LOL! I'm always tempted by the lure of pressing old knives back into service, as well.

I like what you did to that Barlow too - is it a Shapleigh?

I'm actually kind of fascinated by how the previous owners must have modified their cutting techniques, over the years, to account for that remaining sliver of blade. Or maybe they got a new one, and those ones were made 'shop knives' until they wore the edge up to the nail nick.

It is interesting to think about what life these old knives lived. Jack and I joke about using them as a leather awl, but I really can see keeping the worn knife on the work table for jobs like that.

The Barlow is a Shapleigh, and it came to me in that shape. I don't think it would open in my pocket, but the blade does flop around a lot when open. Worn out blade tang/spring interface, I suppose. Hmm, the blade still cuts...

 

[Cambertree]

It is interesting to think about what life these old knives lived. Jack and I joke about using them as a leather awl, but I really can see keeping the worn knife on the work table for jobs like that.

Definitely, r8shell - they become short, boxcutter style blades, with comfy handles, essentially, in their final, blade-worn form.

There's something I like about seeing those Lamb-punches with all that earnest wear and imagining all that personal history someone had with it, as you say.

Here's a few pics for the end of autumn/fall here.

 

[Bartleby]

I admire the shaping of the handle on the Lambshank Mr. Chin! The light in the photos brings out its ergonomics well.

 

[LongBlade]

I have read this thread with much interest … lots of beautiful lambs foot knives and a real interest in the history …. Really cool background searching as to this pattern from lots of folks!! Nice catalog cut Herder and nice recap Cambertree (one small typo though Chin and with all due respect - the Sheffield immigrants I do believe landed in CT and MA for the most part (not PA) – and Waterville and Northfield were CT based cutleries… again with all due respect and I am sure you already knew this. Additionally that is too cool that you have a Northfield catalog from 1869 – would love to see a few cuts from that someday and I was not aware of any catalogs printed that early from Northfield (or even many of the other cutleries in that time period)…


I do have a question and perhaps a comment on Smith’s Key and the lambs foot style blade. I have taken a close look at these plates for awhile now (as have many of you) and there are a few knives that I would consider very close to a lambs foot though I can be wrong – see below. To me I wouldn’t call these knives sheeps foot blades nor a wharncliffe style blade – to my eye they resemble more of a lambs foot style blade. Now given that observation I have seen in this thread and a few others multiple lambs foot blades that have abit of difference in the slope at the end of the blade – some are ground to a sharp angle and others more rounded (indeed I think it very much depended on the maker) but even the spine being non-parallel to the cutting edge is not apparent on all Lambs Foot blades to me – indeed the last post from you Chin even showed abit of a difference between the two lovely knives you posted. So was curious as to what others may think of these knives from Smith’s Key (#s 233-234 and 267 – though the latter #267 is somewhat different in shape but close) – I may be way off base on these and thus why I am looking for comments and indeed to be corrected if I am wrong in that view… all this to me is very interesting discussion. (PS – I do have a few lambs foot knives but need to get photos and will do so and add to this thread as soon as I am able to get some good shots – actually one I obtained was from a seller who turned out is a member of BF and the knife was posted previously in the “Silence of the Lambs Foot” but the photos disappeared from the thread – but I will get them back up on this thread in the near future ;-)) …)..

Cheers and thanks!!!

 

[Cambertree]

I admire the shaping of the handle on the Lambshank Mr. Chin! The light in the photos brings out its ergonomics well.

Thanks Bart. The underside of the handle progressively narrows in radius to match the tightening curves of the middle, ring and pinky fingers, then flares at the end. A fine degree of control can then be exerted between the three points of the little finger/ring finger, the top curve of the swayback nestled in the palm, and the thumb and forefinger close together in sabre, or pinch grip.

You can see the underside more closely here:

It's proving to be a comfortable design in use, if I say so myself. Very pleasurable and smooth to use with that thin edge, and that D2 'bitiness' and edge retention. As I've said before: nothing much original about it, just a distillation of features I've most enjoyed in different Lambsfoot knives, and looking over old catalogues.

I have read this thread with much interest … lots of beautiful lambs foot knives and a real interest in the history …. Really cool background searching as to this pattern from lots of folks!! Nice catalog cut Herder and nice recap Cambertree (one small typo though Chin and with all due respect - the Sheffield immigrants I do believe landed in CT and MA for the most part (not PA) – and Waterville and Northfield were CT based cutleries… again with all due respect and I am sure you already knew this. Additionally that is too cool that you have a Northfield catalog from 1869 – would love to see a few cuts from that someday and I was not aware of any catalogs printed that early from Northfield (or even many of the other cutleries in that time period)…


I do have a question and perhaps a comment on Smith’s Key and the lambs foot style blade. I have taken a close look at these plates for awhile now (as have many of you) and there are a few knives that I would consider very close to a lambs foot though I can be wrong – see below. To me I wouldn’t call these knives sheeps foot blades nor a wharncliffe style blade – to my eye they resemble more of a lambs foot style blade. Now given that observation I have seen in this thread and a few others multiple lambs foot blades that have abit of difference in the slope at the end of the blade – some are ground to a sharp angle and others more rounded (indeed I think it very much depended on the maker) but even the spine being non-parallel to the cutting edge is not apparent on all Lambs Foot blades to me – indeed the last post from you Chin even showed abit of a difference between the two lovely knives you posted. So was curious as to what others may think of these knives from Smith’s Key (#s 233-234 and 267 – though the latter #267 is somewhat different in shape but close) – I may be way off base on these and thus why I am looking for comments and indeed to be corrected if I am wrong in that view… all this to me is very interesting discussion. (PS – I do have a few lambs foot knives but need to get photos and will do so and add to this thread as soon as I am able to get some good shots – actually one I obtained was from a seller who turned out is a member of BF and the knife was posted previously in the “Silence of the Lambs Foot” but the photos disappeared from the thread – but I will get them back up on this thread in the near future ;-)) …)..





Cheers and thanks!!!

Great post, Longblade - and thanks for the correction, I've fixed the original post. I think I must have had Pa. on the brain from looking at Great Eastern Cutlery by David L. Anthony! That book is also where you'll find a copy of that 1869 Northfield Knife Co. catalogue.

Nice sleuthing on those Smith's Key models!

One thing I particularly enjoy about looking at those old patterns is how they combine all sorts of design elements, which today, we would identify as 'belonging' to a particular pattern.

I think you're right - there's enough similarities, that your first two examples could certainly be considered as evolutionary forebears to the Lambsfoot, at least to me. It's also interesting that there's elements of 'Barlow', with the long bolster, and some similarity to the industrial era Tackler's Knife. Those blades are also similar to what A. Wright today, calls their 'Peach Pruner' model, I think.

That last model is also very interesting to see, as a predecessor to those veterinary pattern, Lambsfoot variants posted earlier.

One interesting design departure, I noticed, is how the Smith's Key examples have a dropped tip, which is a good way to engage and bite into material when starting cuts. The modern Lambsfoot knife, seems to cant the handle angle in hand, so the same effect is achieved in a different way. I can definitely see those examples, along with the 'Short Beaks', filling the same 'basic working knife' niche of the later Lambsfoot.

Nice find, Longblade, I'm looking forward to seeing your Lambsfoot knives, and more of your posts.

How cool would it be to go way back to Smith's Key for the Forum Knife, one year?

 

[Bugdoc]

deleted

 

[LongBlade]

Thanks very much Chin for the comments and again nice knife .... I think you are no doubt right in that those first 2 knives (#233 & 234) perhaps may be blades that eventually evolved into the Lambs Foot style.. great observations as well as to the dropped tips and the bolsters - I was so focused on the blades I wasn't actually paying enough attention to the bolsters and as you said indeed there are similarities to the Barlow and Tackler's knives ... The other knife from Smith's Key -#267 - interesting that there were 2 fleams along with the blade - if indeed those blade styles were used to trim hooves than it would make sense to have those as well for veterinary use.. no doubt a cool knife and the only other pattern I have seen with a fleam is the Horseman's knife.... There are so many beautiful patterns in Smith's Key - replicating one would be cool for sure but to find one from that time period would be the ultimate in knife finds ..

BTW - I have that Great Eastern Cutlery book but completely forgot that catalog was included as I haven't picked it up in a year or so - thanks for the reminder

I'll get those photos of my Real Lambs Foot knife soon - but for now I hope this inclusion fits this thread (and I had the photo already) - how about a small Lambs Foot blade on a 6 blade Congress pattern stamped Wm Parker Sheffield (William Parker was late 1700s - early 1800s according to Tweedale and died in 1837 -- his three sons followed him into the American trade following his death in 1837 (Parker brothers) - they had an office in NYC but made knives in Sheffield - in fact one son was also named William Parker according to Tweedale and operated at Eagle Place, No 25 Carver St in Sheffield (former Stanton Cutlery building I believe) - so according to this info plus Goins (though Goins doesn't note a stamp as Wm Parker Sheffield - Goins notes Parker Brothers and Wm & JG Parker) I think this knife was made somewhere between 1841-1852 unless it was made by the father which would put it between 1830-1837 with Sheffield noted on stamp; Levines notes Parker Brothers as 1847-1860) - Now after all that small bit of historical rambling - the blade I want to highlight is fully open on the right side of the knife ... it sure looks like a small Lambs Foot blade to me in comparison to the sharper front angle of the Sheeps Foot master blade but I can be wrong...

Cheers!!
Lee

 

[Bartleby]

The underside of the handle progressively narrows in radius to match the tightening curves of the middle, ring and pinky fingers, then flares at the end. A fine degree of control can then be exerted between the three points of the little finger/ring finger, the top curve of the swayback nestled in the palm, and the thumb and forefinger close together in sabre, or pinch grip

I like the way the rear of the grip is designed to fill the user's palm with that bulbous shape at the end. Simple practical wisdom that.

 

[Jack Black]

I've been away for a few days in Sheffield, nice to see this thread has been busy I need to catch up! For the moment, here's a pic of my buffalo AW Lambsfoot next to the weir of the Upper Coppice Wheel, one of the old cutlery wheels, which once stood on the River Rivelin

 

[Jack Black]

Jack, that Thomas Turner & Co. you showed, also reminded me of that display frame of their 1901 range in the Millennium Gallery in Sheffield. I think, out of fifty pocket knives shown, there is only one 'Lambfoot' type IIRC.

View attachment 715515

View attachment 715516

Thanks for the reminder of a happy day my friend Yes, it's interesting that there's only one Lambsfoot included

I'm actually kind of fascinated by how the previous owners must have modified their cutting techniques, over the years, to account for that remaining sliver of blade. Or maybe they got a new one, and those ones were made 'shop knives' until they wore the edge up to the nail nick.

It is interesting to think about what life these old knives lived. Jack and I joke about using them as a leather awl, but I really can see keeping the worn knife on the work table for jobs like that.

I love the fact the old folks used their knives right down to the last bit of steel This heavily-worn, badly sharpened, and generally 'knackered' Joseph Rodgers Lambsfoot has been sitting in my maintenance box for ages, but I've found the pointy pen blade very useful for poking about in other knives!







I should also show this old Abram Brooksbank, which I believe was originally a Lambsfoot like the one in the black and white pic from Sheffield Museum. Possibly this one also had a broken tip, but it harks back to an earlier time when knife handles were shaped to accommodate a tip which would rise in the frame as the spring and tang wore.

 

[Jack Black]

Here's a few pics for the end of autumn/fall here.

Fantastic pics Chin Hope the winter is kind to you my friend

 

[Jack Black]

I have read this thread with much interest … lots of beautiful lambs foot knives and a real interest in the history …. Really cool background searching as to this pattern from lots of folks!! Nice catalog cut Herder and nice recap Cambertree (one small typo though Chin and with all due respect - the Sheffield immigrants I do believe landed in CT and MA for the most part (not PA) – and Waterville and Northfield were CT based cutleries… again with all due respect and I am sure you already knew this. Additionally that is too cool that you have a Northfield catalog from 1869 – would love to see a few cuts from that someday and I was not aware of any catalogs printed that early from Northfield (or even many of the other cutleries in that time period)…


I do have a question and perhaps a comment on Smith’s Key and the lambs foot style blade. I have taken a close look at these plates for awhile now (as have many of you) and there are a few knives that I would consider very close to a lambs foot though I can be wrong – see below. To me I wouldn’t call these knives sheeps foot blades nor a wharncliffe style blade – to my eye they resemble more of a lambs foot style blade. Now given that observation I have seen in this thread and a few others multiple lambs foot blades that have abit of difference in the slope at the end of the blade – some are ground to a sharp angle and others more rounded (indeed I think it very much depended on the maker) but even the spine being non-parallel to the cutting edge is not apparent on all Lambs Foot blades to me – indeed the last post from you Chin even showed abit of a difference between the two lovely knives you posted. So was curious as to what others may think of these knives from Smith’s Key (#s 233-234 and 267 – though the latter #267 is somewhat different in shape but close) – I may be way off base on these and thus why I am looking for comments and indeed to be corrected if I am wrong in that view… all this to me is very interesting discussion. (PS – I do have a few lambs foot knives but need to get photos and will do so and add to this thread as soon as I am able to get some good shots – actually one I obtained was from a seller who turned out is a member of BF and the knife was posted previously in the “Silence of the Lambs Foot” but the photos disappeared from the thread – but I will get them back up on this thread in the near future ;-)) …)..






Cheers and thanks!!!

Great post, Longblade - and thanks for the correction, I've fixed the original post. I think I must have had Pa. on the brain from looking at Great Eastern Cutlery by David L. Anthony! That book is also where you'll find a copy of that 1869 Northfield Knife Co. catalogue.

Nice sleuthing on those Smith's Key models!

One thing I particularly enjoy about looking at those old patterns is how they combine all sorts of design elements, which today, we would identify as 'belonging' to a particular pattern.

I think you're right - there's enough similarities, that your first two examples could certainly be considered as evolutionary forebears to the Lambsfoot, at least to me. It's also interesting that there's elements of 'Barlow', with the long bolster, and some similarity to the industrial era Tackler's Knife. Those blades are also similar to what A. Wright today, calls their 'Peach Pruner' model, I think.

That last model is also very interesting to see, as a predecessor to those veterinary pattern, Lambsfoot variants posted earlier.

One interesting design departure, I noticed, is how the Smith's Key examples have a dropped tip, which is a good way to engage and bite into material when starting cuts. The modern Lambsfoot knife, seems to cant the handle angle in hand, so the same effect is achieved in a different way. I can definitely see those examples, along with the 'Short Beaks', filling the same 'basic working knife' niche of the later Lambsfoot.

Nice find, Longblade, I'm looking forward to seeing your Lambsfoot knives, and more of your posts.

How cool would it be to go way back to Smith's Key for the Forum Knife, one year?

Thanks very much Chin for the comments and again nice knife .... I think you are no doubt right in that those first 2 knives (#233 & 234) perhaps may be blades that eventually evolved into the Lambs Foot style.. great observations as well as to the dropped tips and the bolsters - I was so focused on the blades I wasn't actually paying enough attention to the bolsters and as you said indeed there are similarities to the Barlow and Tackler's knives ... The other knife from Smith's Key -#267 - interesting that there were 2 fleams along with the blade - if indeed those blade styles were used to trim hooves than it would make sense to have those as well for veterinary use.. no doubt a cool knife and the only other pattern I have seen with a fleam is the Horseman's knife.... There are so many beautiful patterns in Smith's Key - replicating one would be cool for sure but to find one from that time period would be the ultimate in knife finds ..

BTW - I have that Great Eastern Cutlery book but completely forgot that catalog was included as I haven't picked it up in a year or so - thanks for the reminder

Fantastic discussion gents Looking forward to seeing your Lambsfoot knives Lee I'd tend to agree with Chin with regard to the Smith's Key knives, particularly the parts I've taken the liberty of highlighting. I think those blade forms are similar to many straight-edged patterns, the ones mentioned by Chin especially I'd love to see something from Smith's Key as a Forum Knife!

 

[Jack Black]

My Lambsfoot of the day

 

[Cambertree]

And a tapered tang on Lambshank Chin, hadn't seen that before. Mark of an expert.

Thanks Tom. I'm definitely no 'expert', but I like to try to learn from the design features of knives that I have enjoyed in use. A tapered tang and blade spine can make the balance, and 'poise' of a fixed-blade knife feel more lively and responsive, I've noticed.

Thanks very much Chin for the comments and again nice knife .... I think you are no doubt right in that those first 2 knives (#233 & 234) perhaps may be blades that eventually evolved into the Lambs Foot style.. great observations as well as to the dropped tips and the bolsters - I was so focused on the blades I wasn't actually paying enough attention to the bolsters and as you said indeed there are similarities to the Barlow and Tackler's knives ... The other knife from Smith's Key -#267 - interesting that there were 2 fleams along with the blade - if indeed those blade styles were used to trim hooves than it would make sense to have those as well for veterinary use.. no doubt a cool knife and the only other pattern I have seen with a fleam is the Horseman's knife.... There are so many beautiful patterns in Smith's Key - replicating one would be cool for sure but to find one from that time period would be the ultimate in knife finds ..

BTW - I have that Great Eastern Cutlery book but completely forgot that catalog was included as I haven't picked it up in a year or so - thanks for the reminder

I'll get those photos of my Real Lambs Foot knife soon - but for now I hope this inclusion fits this thread (and I had the photo already) - how about a small Lambs Foot blade on a 6 blade Congress pattern stamped Wm Parker Sheffield (William Parker was late 1700s - early 1800s according to Tweedale and died in 1837 -- his three sons followed him into the American trade following his death in 1837 (Parker brothers) - they had an office in NYC but made knives in Sheffield - in fact one son was also named William Parker according to Tweedale and operated at Eagle Place, No 25 Carver St in Sheffield (former Stanton Cutlery building I believe) - so according to this info plus Goins (though Goins doesn't note a stamp as Wm Parker Sheffield - Goins notes Parker Brothers and Wm & JG Parker) I think this knife was made somewhere between 1841-1852 unless it was made by the father which would put it between 1830-1837 with Sheffield noted on stamp; Levines notes Parker Brothers as 1847-1860) - Now after all that small bit of historical rambling - the blade I want to highlight is fully open on the right side of the knife ... it sure looks like a small Lambs Foot blade to me in comparison to the sharper front angle of the Sheeps Foot master blade but I can be wrong...



Cheers!!
Lee

Interesting Congress knife there, Lee. The bolster to cover ratios are very similar to some of those Smith's Key knives. Brother Herder posted a Northfield 294 Congress, from that 1869 catalogue here a while ago, which also featured a Lambsfoot-like small straight edge blade. It does beg the question, what the term for that blade would be. I don't think it would have been referred to as a Lambsfoot, but working cutlers, at least, must have had a name for it at the time...

Thanks for another interesting post.

I like the way the rear of the grip is designed to fill the user's palm with that bulbous shape at the end. Simple practical wisdom that.

Yes, it's definitely one of the best features of the 'Real Lambsfoot', to me, Bart. It's not necessarily suitable to larger blade styles, but that swayback palmswell is very comfortable for a light, nimble utility knife.

I've been away for a few days in Sheffield, nice to see this thread has been busy I need to catch up! For the moment, here's a pic of my buffalo AW Lambsfoot next to the weir of the Upper Coppice Wheel, one of the old cutlery wheels, which once stood on the River Rivelin

Great photo of your trip to Sheffield, Jack, it sounds like it went well, my friend.

'The Wheels Which Once Stood on the River Rivelin.'

Hmmm, sounds like a thread title, or something...

That 'Dairy-Maids of Porter Brook' series is one of my favourite Porch threads...

Just saying.

Thanks for the reminder of a happy day my friend Yes, it's interesting that there's only one Lambsfoot included

I love the fact the old folks used their knives right down to the last bit of steel This heavily-worn, badly sharpened, and generally 'knackered' Joseph Rodgers Lambsfoot has been sitting in my maintenance box for ages, but I've found the pointy pen blade very useful for poking about in other knives!







I should also show this old Abram Brooksbank, which I believe was originally a Lambsfoot like the one in the black and white pic from Sheffield Museum. Possibly this one also had a broken tip, but it harks back to an earlier time when knife handles were shaped to accommodate a tip which would rise in the frame as the spring and tang wore.

Thanks for posting some more great old workers, mate.

I like thinking of new uses for old blades, as well. It's actually kind of humbling, considering how much quality steel, all of us here have, to imagine the owners of those Lamb-picks and punches earnestly continuing to use their one knife to that level of wear.

It made me also think how Stan Shaw didn't actually have a pocket knife until you gifted him one of his 'gaffers' ones.

Fantastic pics Chin Hope the winter is kind to you my friend

Ah, it'll be positively balmy after experiencing that sleety midwinter wind coming off the Irish Sea, and the glacial valleys of County Donegal earlier this year!

 

[Jack Black]

Interesting Congress there, Lee. The bolster to cover ratios are very similar to some of those Smith's Key knives. Brother Herder posted a Northfield 294 Congress, from that 1869 catalogue here a while ago, which also featured a Lambsfoot-like small straight edge blade. It does beg the question, what the term for that blade would be. I don't think it would have been referred to as a Lambsfoot, but working cutlers, at least, must have had a name for it at the time...

I agree Chin, I was looking through a 1976 reprint of the 1885 IXL catalogue last night (a generous gift from @herder), and there are a couple of Pruning knives, which have 'proto-Lambsfoot' blades, and many small slim Sheepsfoot blades on Congress knives and Whittlers. I don't think any of them would actually have been called Lambsfoot blades though, and they're certainly not named as such in the catalogue, which is typically sparse in terms of its pattern descriptions anyway. Those Sheffield cutlers seem to have discovered marketing late in the day (and most have YET to discover it ). They also seem to have been as slow to coin pattern descriptions, as they were to coin names for anything else (probably too busy boozing), take those Sheffield job descriptions 'Puller-out' or 'Putter-togetherer', or 'Knocker-upper' for the bloke who knocked on your window with a stick to tell you it was time to get up for work! The gaffer may have simply said, "I want a 2-blade knife, one blade like that, and one blade like this."!

Great photo of your trip to Sheffield, Jack, it sounds like it went well, my friend.

'The Wheels Which Once Stood on the River Rivelin.'

Hmmm, sounds like a thread title, or something...

That 'Dairy-Maids of Porter Brook' series is one of my favourite Porch threads...

Just saying.

Thanks pal, it's a shame the forum software changes have messed up the old threads. I'll hope to get something written up at some point, and took photos with that in mind

Thanks for posting some more great old workers, mate.

I like thinking of new uses for old blades, as well. It's actually kind of humbling, considering how much quality steel, all of us here have, to imagine the owners of those Lamb-picks and punches earnestly continuing to use their one knife to that level of wear.

It made me also think how Stan Shaw didn't actually have a pocket knife until you gifted him one of his 'gaffers' ones.

A pleasure my friend I must admit to often feeling a bit ashamed at how underused most of my knives are. I was talking to Stan on the phone last night, and he is keeping well

Ah, it'll be positively balmy after experiencing that sleety midwinter wind coming off the Irish Sea, and the glacial valleys of County Donegal earlier this year!

Fer sure!

 

[Bugdoc]

deleted

 

[LongBlade]

)

I agree Chin, I was looking through a 1976 reprint of the 1885 IXL catalogue last night (a generous gift from @herder), and there are a couple of Pruning knives, which have 'proto-Lambsfoot' blades, and many small slim Sheepsfoot blades on Congress knives and Whittlers. I don't think any of them would actually have been called Lambsfoot blades though, and they're certainly not named as such in the catalogue, which is typically sparse in terms of its pattern descriptions anyway. Those Sheffield cutlers seem to have discovered marketing late in the day (and most have YET to discover it ). They also seem to have been as slow to coin pattern descriptions, as they were to coin names for anything else (probably too busy boozing), take those Sheffield job descriptions 'Puller-out' or 'Putter-togetherer', or 'Knocker-upper' for the bloke who knocked on your window with a stick to tell you it was time to get up for work! The gaffer may have simply said, "I want a 2-blade knife, one blade like that, and one blade like this."!

Thanks Jack (and Chin again )... I was throwing this out there for discussion as that blade is more Lambs Foot to me than Sheeps Foot... Jack - Given your comments on the IXL catalog and knives highlighted I am not sure at that time Lambs Foot may have been an accepted pattern name - but I truly don't know so I can be wrong and only speculation - in fact given there was very little description in that catalog which may not be surprising given old catalogs so it is hard to say... While in fact the Congress knife I posted had a blade that looked more Lambs Foot to me than Sheeps Foot perhaps doesn't mean much in that it may have been the cutler who shaped the blade and thus it is how it turned out - I think today we have more interest in figuring out a history and blade style terminology than cutlers of old may have imagined and thus we have different view points from that of the originals ( and I believe you alluded to that above)... I indeed have an old George Butler Peach Pruner - and to me that blade is indeed a Lambs Foot - in addition I have an very early Camillus Peach Pruner with the same exact blade... while I know the frame doesn't fit the Lambs Foot folder as we know it I should say it is interesting to me nonetheless - and in the end I wonder if "Real Lambs Foot" knives became more of a marketing scheme than anything else - than again maybe not. Please don't misinterpret that opinion from me as I no doubt believe Lambs Foot knives as highlighted in many posts including those from A W are sweet nice patterns and I see one in my future to EDC ... the real question is when they started to be called Lambs Foot (which my reading from this thread suggests 1880s-1890s) and if the blade style itself preceded that name but was not called a Lambs Foot - just speculation my friend!!

 

[LongBlade]

Just a follow-up to my post above - I took the time to revisit this thread from the beginning and think I understand better now what the group as a whole are defining as a Lambs Foot knife and in particular blade. I now see what I may have been calling a Lambs Foot may not be correct even based on Chin's and Jack's posts above - I guess the important characteristic I was missing though alluded to is the non-parallel or tapered knife blade towards the tip and perhaps I was focusing too much on the slope of the spine towards the tip (though that plays a role as well). Given that I believe in the true sense of a Lambs Foot I was incorrect on the blades above... though this is where I still have some confusion as I wouldn't call those blades Sheeps Foot - maybe they are called Lambs Foot variations or predecessors as noted above. In addition as I looked through the thread I see other knives that did not taper towards the tip which contributed to my definition but yet are still called Lambs Foot knives (not the majority but a few)... Nonetheless sorry for the confusion and as I noted I will post my "Real Lambs Foot" knife when I am able to get the proper photos (at the moment just have not had the time and I need to setup my photo shooting box again). Thanks to all!

 

[Jack Black]

)

Thanks Jack (and Chin again )... I was throwing this out there for discussion as that blade is more Lambs Foot to me than Sheeps Foot... Jack - Given your comments on the IXL catalog and knives highlighted I am not sure at that time Lambs Foot may have been an accepted pattern name - but I truly don't know so I can be wrong and only speculation - in fact given there was very little description in that catalog which may not be surprising given old catalogs so it is hard to say... While in fact the Congress knife I posted had a blade that looked more Lambs Foot to me than Sheeps Foot perhaps doesn't mean much in that it may have been the cutler who shaped the blade and thus it is how it turned out - I think today we have more interest in figuring out a history and blade style terminology than cutlers of old may have imagined and thus we have different view points from that of the originals ( and I believe you alluded to that above)... I indeed have an old George Butler Peach Pruner - and to me that blade is indeed a Lambs Foot - in addition I have an very early Camillus Peach Pruner with the same exact blade... while I know the frame doesn't fit the Lambs Foot folder as we know it I should say it is interesting to me nonetheless - and in the end I wonder if "Real Lambs Foot" knives became more of a marketing scheme than anything else - than again maybe not. Please don't misinterpret that opinion from me as I no doubt believe Lambs Foot knives as highlighted in many posts including those from A W are sweet nice patterns and I see one in my future to EDC ... the real question is when they started to be called Lambs Foot (which my reading from this thread suggests 1880s-1890s) and if the blade style itself preceded that name but was not called a Lambs Foot - just speculation my friend!!

Blimey, I’ve been trying to post this all day! A combination of Photobiucket problems and a poor internet connection have been the cause Sorry for the slow reply Lee

Thanks for breathing fresh life into our discussion Lee As you know, our oldest knives have straight-edges. Here's a a couple from the Iron Age (clearly the straight-edge is more versatile than many modern knife users suppose! ).





Bearing that in mind, I think it's hardly surprising that there are so many forms. Many Quill Knives have a sort of thin 'Short Beak' blade, also sometimes called a 'Clipped Blade', like on this Joseph Rodgers. Almost like a long thin coping blade.



The IXL Pruning Knives I referred to are these, the one on the left is the one of interest to us I think, but despite its relatively slim blade, I'd class it as a Sheepsfoot rather than a Lambsfoot. The cutlers of course, may not have used either term, they may have called it a Pruner blade, or a type of Pruner blade, or something else entirely.



Probably the closest we've managed to find to an early Lambsfoot are the Short Beak blades in Smith's Key. Personally (and we're ALL speculating my friend ) I don't think any of these blade shapes morphed into a Lambsfoot, I think they're all different, but they show that people appreciated the usefulness of a narrower straight-edged blade.


For me, a key thing is not just the adoption of the 'Lambsfoot' name or the 'Real Lamb Foot' stamp, but when we first see a narrow straight-edged blade with an edge which does not run parallel to the spine, which despite some anomalies, I still regard as the defining feature of the Lambsfoot blade. Possibly, all these features go together.

 

[Jack Black]

Just a follow-up to my post above - I took the time to revisit this thread from the beginning and think I understand better now what the group as a whole are defining as a Lambs Foot knife and in particular blade. I now see what I may have been calling a Lambs Foot may not be correct even based on Chin's and Jack's posts above - I guess the important characteristic I was missing though alluded to is the non-parallel or tapered knife blade towards the tip and perhaps I was focusing too much on the slope of the spine towards the tip (though that plays a role as well). Given that I believe in the true sense of a Lambs Foot I was incorrect on the blades above... though this is where I still have some confusion as I wouldn't call those blades Sheeps Foot - maybe they are called Lambs Foot variations or predecessors as noted above. In addition as I looked through the thread I see other knives that did not taper towards the tip which contributed to my definition but yet are still called Lambs Foot knives (not the majority but a few)... Nonetheless sorry for the confusion and as I noted I will post my "Real Lambs Foot" knife when I am able to get the proper photos (at the moment just have not had the time and I need to setup my photo shooting box again). Thanks to all!