Gun Law Question

N

Numbersman23

Joined
Jun 19, 2017
Messages
15
So, with regard to the awful happenings in Las Vegas, for us people from overseas, can someone clear up US gun laws for us, with regard to automatic weapons? A lot of my friends are saying that it is legal to buy automatic weapons in the US, and I'm pretty damn sure that isn't true. Can we clear this up, please?
 
That simple answer is no ... but in some states if you go through the process and pass all the federal background checks and have the necessary credintials you can obtain a permit to own a fully automatic weapon ... it takes several months to get approved and there is a tax you have to pay ... and I'm not positive the cost for that ... but to buy a short barrel rifle (under 18") or to buy a silencer in states that allow them ... it's much the same process and I believe those fees are $200.00 ... And you have to have the Chief Law Enforcement Officer sign papers for your permit and provide photo, finger prints, and register it with the ATF.

I'm not up on each states requirements but it is possible to ... but its not easy nor cheap so not many have them ...
 
The simple answer is no.

The real answer is yes. You can. There are a couple routes, both requiring some pretty significant background checks and approvals and opening up yourself to random fbi inspections. There is one method that is easy, but very expensive. A pre 198X year auto is not controlled, only requiring a tax stamp, but those are very limited in numbers and going prices are upwards of 20k$ last I checked.

However, outlaws don’t care for laws. Nearly any semi auto can be converted to fully auto, most in just minutes, with little more than a hammer, pin punch and a file or sand paper. A firearm is a very simple series of mechanical interactions, and easily understood and modified by anyone with limited mechanical aptitude. Sure, you may not get the fancy 3 round burst, and probably couldn’t even control the 30 rounds available in your average magazine, but it would make a mess. Your law abiding American citizen firearm owner (which is most of them) won’t do this anyway. It makes no sense.
 
Yes you can with some basic gunsmithing knowledge turn a semi auto into a full auto ... but that isn't legally buying or owning one. And very steep jail sentences and fines if you try that route.
 
JJ_Colt45 said:
Yes you can with some basic gunsmithing knowledge turn a semi auto into a full auto ... but that isn't legally buying or owning one. And very steep jail sentences and fines if you try that route.
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Josh Rodriquez from Omaha Nebraska was sentenced to 2 yrs I prison for possession and converting a semi auto to full auto. Apparently the feds have gone soft.
 
well it is sad some of the deals our justice systems make just because of over crowded prisons ... but it can be much more then that ... but youre right ... more often then not they are soft.

If they weren't so soft ... it may keep the over crowding problem down.
 
This thread is probably going to axed very fast because this is blade forums, dammit, and there's a million gun forums out there. But I did also want to point out bump-firing and external trigger-pulling contraptions. These will cause a some normal, unmodified semi-auto firearms to fire at full auto, albeit with reduced accuracy, and are largely legal (some are legally untested and some it probably depends on the individual state). Of course, they are also more or less impossible to outlaw, since one just involves holding the gun a certain way.
 
Yes and no. You have to get an almost unattainable tax stamp. So first you have to pay the gummit a large sum of money for the privlage to own it. Then full autos are a chunk of money in themselves.
No tax stamp no full auto.
Its easier to play a round of golf at agusta.
Add ons such as bump fire stocks etc. are not full auto weapons.
However buying semi autos is not much of a problem if your not a convicted felon.
 
thefamcnaj said:
Yes and no. You have to get an almost unattainable tax stamp. So first you have to pay the gummit a large sum of money for the privlage to own it. Then full autos are a chunk of money in themselves.
No tax stamp no full auto.
Its easier to play a round of golf at agusta.
...
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Lordy, what a load of disinformation. Tax stamp for full auto is no more difficult to get than same for SBR SBS AOW. Same turn around time, same background check, same price, $200.

The real problem is that the full auto weapon itself must have been already registered by 5/19/1986. Nothing newer than that can be possessed except by FFLs with proper SOT, LE, and military and other gummit orgs.

So since the pool of available full auto weapons has not increased for the average Joe in 31 years, the prices are astronomical for quality full auto firearms. And quite high even for crummy Mac 10s and the like.

- OS
 
OhShoot said:
Lordy, what a load of disinformation. Tax stamp for full auto is no more difficult to get than same for SBR SBS AOW. Same turn around time, same background check, same price, $200.

The real problem is that the full auto weapon itself must have been already registered by 5/19/1986. Nothing newer than that can be possessed except by FFLs with proper SOT, LE, and military and other gummit orgs.

So since the pool of available full auto weapons has not increased for the average Joe in 31 years, the prices are astronomical for quality full auto firearms. And quite high even for crummy Mac 10s and the like.

- OS
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This, and you must live in a state/city that hasn't banned possession or use. For example in Georgia, for about $10-$100K, I have my pick (common crummy--->HK goodness respectively) of pre 5/19/1986 registered machine guns or parts that are registered as such (drop in auto sear DIAS) for a $200 stamp and a 4-9 month wait for the approval. Since people are waiting that long for some knives from production->custom knife makers seems pretty easy except for the initial cash outlay. Buy gun, fill out paperwork, send in paperwork and $200, wait, get approved, gun can now be transferred to buyer. Obviously the amount of ammo one goes through would increase exponentially making the cost of the actual machine gun pretty small in comparison to the cost of ammo to run it.
 
OhShoot said:
Lordy, what a load of disinformation. Tax stamp for full auto is no more difficult to get than same for SBR SBS AOW. Same turn around time, same background check, same price, $200.

The real problem is that the full auto weapon itself must have been already registered by 5/19/1986. Nothing newer than that can be possessed except by FFLs with proper SOT, LE, and military and other gummit orgs.

So since the pool of available full auto weapons has not increased for the average Joe in 31 years, the prices are astronomical for quality full auto firearms. And quite high even for crummy Mac 10s and the like.

- OS
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Depending onnthe county you live in a tax stamp can be basically unattainable, eapecially if you have an anti 2A sherrif.
To me having being the bread winner in a house of 5 people, 200$ is a large sum of money.
You agree that full autos are a chunk of money according to your post. You also seem to understand that no stamp equalls no full auto or silencer etc.
No disinformation was given.
 
thefamcnaj said:
Depending onnthe county you live in a tax stamp can be basically unattainable, eapecially if you have an anti 2A sherrif.
To me having being the bread winner in a house of 5 people, 200$ is a large sum of money.
You agree that full autos are a chunk of money according to your post. You also seem to understand that no stamp equalls no full auto or silencer etc.
No disinformation was given.
Click to expand...

You should really keep up with the law of the land if you're going to assert such stuff. No CLEO signoff is required for any NFA application anymore. CLEO is notified only.

I'm sorry if your state bans full auto altogether, but for the majority of us, the process is no more difficult than for any other NFA firearm. I'm sorry you have to cut your finances so close, but for many of us $200 is a bargain, especially since it has remained the same price for 83 years!

- OS
 
OhShoot said:
You should really keep up with the law of the land if you're going to assert such stuff. No CLEO signoff is required for any NFA application anymore. CLEO is notified only.

I'm sorry if your state bans full auto altogether, but for the majority of us, the process is no more difficult than for any other NFA firearm. I'm sorry you have to cut your finances so close, but for many of us $200 is a bargain, especially since it has remained the same price for 83 years!

- OS
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I dont need your sarcasim or apologies and my financial situation is none of your concern.
You have no clue as to what my situation is or why it is what it is.
 
thefamcnaj said:
I dont need your sarcasim or apologies and my financial situation is none of your concern.
You have no clue as to what my situation is or why it is what it is.
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Well, I didn't make anything up ya know, you just told us what your financial situation is ("$200 is a large sum of money") , and why it is ("breadwinner in a house of 5 people").

Mainly, the followup was to correct you regarding your "sherrif" sign-off info, you know, part of the disinformation you say you didn't impart.

- OS
 
Numbersman23 said:
So, with regard to the awful happenings in Las Vegas, for us people from overseas, can someone clear up US gun laws for us, with regard to automatic weapons? A lot of my friends are saying that it is legal to buy automatic weapons in the US, and I'm pretty damn sure that isn't true. Can we clear this up, please?
Click to expand...

As others have said, it's possible to do it legally, but it's a very expensive and time consuming process that simply isn't worth it. For the price of an H&K MP5, you can buy a ton of more common firearms, and plenty of ammunition to go along with them.
 
Fully automatic firearms, or "machine guns," have been controlled since the National Firearms Act of 1934 was passed in 1934. This created a registry and a tax system required to own them. You must be in a state that allows them, Washington state for instance bans them unless you owned it before 1995, then you must submit a "Form 4," Application for tax paid transfer of a NFA firearm. Fingerprints, pictures, and questionnaire along with the payment of $200 are submitted to the BATFE's NFA branch. Currently the waiting time is about 12 months for approval.
Additionally, because of a rider to the Firearm Owner's Protection Act of 1985 no machine gun made after 1985 (might be May of 1986 actually) can be transferred to anyone except divisions and subdivisions of the US government and certain types of dealers. The military, police departments, government security agencies, but not many tribal police because of the their semi-sovereign status, unless they are deputized/commissioned by the Bureau of Indian Affairs or another law enforcement agency.
Because of the FOPA, the number of full auto available can only go down as they wear out or are damaged beyond repair. The least expensive full auto firearm is something like MAC-10 that starts at about $5000 USD. The most expensive I can think of is the ONLY transferable M249 Squad Automatic Weapon/light machine gun. Not a Minimi but a properly marked and configured M249. Dan Shea used to have it. I believe it sold for $550,000 USD the last time it sold.
M134 mini-guns (powered gatling guns) are a bit over $100,000.
More reasonable priced guns are around $15-20,000 for M16s. Heckler & Koch are quite a bit more, and transferable M60s are around $60,000 USD.

Full auto requires a lot of patience and a lot of money.

Source of knowledge on this is working for a Type 07 FFL (manufacturer, though we don't make much right now) with a Class 2 SOT (Special Occupational Tax, a Type 2 is a maker of NFA items, a Class 3... where the mistaken term of class 3 license, or class 3 firearms comes from... is a dealer of NFA firearms). And having worked for another previous to this. I have assembled/manufactured/made NFA firearms. I've spent a lot of hours reading the BATFE's regulations and looking up the laws... and there is still a LOT I don't know. I know enough to know that I don't know a lot.
 
In the US, you CAN own a fully automatic weapon. They are rare, and extremely expensive ($15,000+ for simple automatic rifles). It requires a $200 federal investigation that takes close to a year to complete
 
As has already been pointed out, there is misinformation flying every which way in this thread so far and it continues unabated. Anyone that is seriously interested in acquiring an NFA item would do well to seek out a forum with informed members that know the difference between a tax stamp and an investigation. Right now this resembles people mistaking a machete for a pineapple.
 
Your friends are probably being told and are repeating the nonsense that so many people outside the US are told and then repeat wrongly. The notion that any person can walk into a sporting goods store or department store in the United States and walk out with a new automatic rifle is completely wrong. Idiots in our country sometimes try to spread that lie, and idiots in other countries are often happy to repeat the lie. People cannot generally buy fully-automatic rifles in the United States. You are right and your friends are wrong.

Yes, there are ways that a small number of people can legally buy a fully-automatic rifle if someone has enough time, enough money, a clean enough background, and enough patience. As you can see from the responses to this thread, the details of that process are confusing, and many people have misperceptions. I don't pretend to know the entire process, so I don't know which opinions are better and which opinions aren't.

Yes, there are techniques and devices for extremely rapid fire of a semi-automatic rifle. Most people can't fire all that accurately using these techniques or devices and don't bother practicing them. Very few of us believe that we will ever need to open a "field of fire" unless we are in the military. In the military, people have fully-automatic weapons for that purpose. For the rest of us, using one of these rapid fire techniques might be fun once or twice but isn't something we want on a regular basis.

Yes, there are techniques for converting a semi-automatic rifle to fully-automatic fire. Aside from being illegal, most of them are considered unreliable unless done by someone with a good bit of skill. Few of us are interested in messing up a perfectly good semi-automatic rifle (or pistol or shotgun) for a capability that we don't expect to need.
 
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