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A gun.
-
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Gun or knife as primary defense weapon??
- Thread starter hopethisisnttaken
- Start date
A gun. -assuming it's reliable, and of adequate caliber.
Knives are great for backup, though a second gun would even be better.
Knives are much more useful on a daily basis, and more convenient to carry, but they are a last-ditch weapon, not first choice, IMO.
Yes, blood-borne pathogens are out there, and personally they scare me to death.
I see a lot of people talking about knife vs. gun and "most situations are under 7 yards", etc.
I don't know what leads people to believe that the situation they find themselves in will be "average". Just because some guy named Gracie closed the distance in a second doesn't mean the average person can. Not to mention being effective once you get there.
Someone give a real-life example of a person charging a gun (held by someone intent on killing them) and defeating them with a knife.
This is a fantasy.
Get your knife, I'll take a Sig P-220. If we pace off 7 yards and both go for it, you're dead. Plain and simple.
That is reality.
btw, that is assuming that neither person has their weapon drawn, and both know what is about to happen, and each is equally skilled with his/her weapon of choice. That is usually not the case, and I do not doubt that someone can successfully attack a gun-toter with a knife. I just think that it is the element of surprise that would allow them to succeed.
Had to edit this because my posts on this and similar discussions are bordering on confrontational, and it is not my wish to offend anyone. Just sharing a different viewpoint.
[This message has been edited by Owen (edited 10-07-2000).]
Knives are great for backup, though a second gun would even be better.
Knives are much more useful on a daily basis, and more convenient to carry, but they are a last-ditch weapon, not first choice, IMO.
Yes, blood-borne pathogens are out there, and personally they scare me to death.
I see a lot of people talking about knife vs. gun and "most situations are under 7 yards", etc.
I don't know what leads people to believe that the situation they find themselves in will be "average". Just because some guy named Gracie closed the distance in a second doesn't mean the average person can. Not to mention being effective once you get there.
Someone give a real-life example of a person charging a gun (held by someone intent on killing them) and defeating them with a knife.
This is a fantasy.
Get your knife, I'll take a Sig P-220. If we pace off 7 yards and both go for it, you're dead. Plain and simple.
That is reality.
btw, that is assuming that neither person has their weapon drawn, and both know what is about to happen, and each is equally skilled with his/her weapon of choice. That is usually not the case, and I do not doubt that someone can successfully attack a gun-toter with a knife. I just think that it is the element of surprise that would allow them to succeed.
Had to edit this because my posts on this and similar discussions are bordering on confrontational, and it is not my wish to offend anyone. Just sharing a different viewpoint.
[This message has been edited by Owen (edited 10-07-2000).]
- Joined
- Nov 29, 1998
- Messages
- 774
Take it from a guy who carried openly as part of my job for 25 years. It all depends on the bad guy. If you identify the bad guy before he is too close and depending on what he has as a weapon, you have a better chance of survival. If he is in arms reach and you don't know he is a bad guy, no weapon is going to let you escape totally unharmed unless someone else comes to your rescue. Again it also depends on his weapon of choice. In the Lubby's shooting in Texas, a gun would be the better choice because the bad guy could have been engaged at a distance and from behind cover. If you are at the local ATM at night and the first indication that you have that you are in trouble is the bad guy poking a gun in your back, you are at his mercy.
Having both are better than either alone and knowing what is going on around you at all times is the best defense.
John
Having both are better than either alone and knowing what is going on around you at all times is the best defense.
John
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2000
- Messages
- 1,526
Have had a pistol permit since 1985,carry more than the average gun owner usally a Glock mod.23 or a snubnose .38.Don't carry as much since I moved out of the city,no drive bys,or neighbors getting held up in the burbs.
However a knife lets me always have something.Those that say the always carry a gun are either liars,law breakers,or homebodies.I'm on school grounds several times a week add in the post office and theres the places its illegal to carry.At work its against the rules to have a gun but knives are ok. Oh yes county parks can't carry a gun there,but its where we ski,sled and hike.Then theres times like when we use the neighbors pool,no problem to drop a knife on the deck with my towel they might object to the Glock though.Love guns and knives,guns a better tool IMO but I can always have a knife and that beats a gun at home.
[This message has been edited by Lone Hunter (edited 10-06-2000).]
However a knife lets me always have something.Those that say the always carry a gun are either liars,law breakers,or homebodies.I'm on school grounds several times a week add in the post office and theres the places its illegal to carry.At work its against the rules to have a gun but knives are ok. Oh yes county parks can't carry a gun there,but its where we ski,sled and hike.Then theres times like when we use the neighbors pool,no problem to drop a knife on the deck with my towel they might object to the Glock though.Love guns and knives,guns a better tool IMO but I can always have a knife and that beats a gun at home.
[This message has been edited by Lone Hunter (edited 10-06-2000).]
glockman99
RIP Dann, you were a good guy.
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2000
- Messages
- 21,269
.40 Caliber Glocks, of course.
.
(Also have been known to carry my Cold Steel Ex-LARGE Gunsite Folder, as a back-up to the G27 that is a back-up to the G23.
.).
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Dann Fassnacht
Aberdeen, WA
glockman99@hotmail.com
ICQ# 53675663
(Also have been known to carry my Cold Steel Ex-LARGE Gunsite Folder, as a back-up to the G27 that is a back-up to the G23.
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Dann Fassnacht
Aberdeen, WA
glockman99@hotmail.com
ICQ# 53675663
The best defense is to stay away from potentially dangerous situations and not look for trouble (NEVER get out of your car to talk to an angry motorist or for a fender bender-use a cell phone to call the police).
I know from my personal experience, if any weapon is ever drawn, violence always escalates. Always remember, anything that you put in your hands can be taken away from you and used against you.
If I ever got stuck in a hostile situation while walking along the road, I would hope I can run fast enough to the closest safe haven. Saving face isn't worth losing a life.
I know from my personal experience, if any weapon is ever drawn, violence always escalates. Always remember, anything that you put in your hands can be taken away from you and used against you.
If I ever got stuck in a hostile situation while walking along the road, I would hope I can run fast enough to the closest safe haven. Saving face isn't worth losing a life.
Originally posted by glockman99:
.40 Caliber Glocks, of course..
(Also have been known to carry my Cold Steel Ex-LARGE Gunsite Folder, as a back-up to the G27 that is a back-up to the G23..).
I agree here.... a .40 Glock is much better at 20 yards than my sebenza or Nimravus cub would be. I carry the G23.
Jon
But being prepared in the event the impossible doe shappen is kinda handy. It happened to my one time last fall. I have carried with a CCW since 1986. I am a FFL Dealer. Me, my brother, Dad and Brother in law were traveling "up north" to go shooting. We got forced off the road by a guy who had to be on crack or something as there were 4 grown men in our van and one 20-22 yr old in his little truck. I got out, as we were blocked from moving, the nut said we were driving too slow (only 65 in a 55) and he was going to "blow our heads off with his 12 ga". As he said that, he turned like he was getting "it" in his truck. When he turned back, he was looking down the bbl of a Glock 23 that was a fraction of a second from making mush out of his gray matter. His foot hit his gas pedal faster than you can blink an eye! ha ha ha
Punks... he was lucky that day.
Jon
I believe your first best defensive weapon should be tactical awareness and if that fails you then your firearm, pepper spray, knife ,baton or cane, and last a good unarmed street based fighting system.(escrima etc.) Good luck and watch your six.
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Ray Carr
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Ray Carr
- Joined
- Nov 21, 1999
- Messages
- 8
As you can tell by my handle, I love guns. But, I think that anyone that discounts the ability of a knife either has never seen the damage one can do, or is totally incompetent in how to use one and has no clue of how effective they can be.
A handgun gives you range over a knife. That is about it. A knife on the other hand has a LOT of other advantages: it never jams, it is nearly IMPOSSIBLE to disarm (as a trained person, I can guarantee you that if you think you can disarm a trained person's knife, you are very mistaken), it is easy to hit the target with, it never runs out of ammo, and it is deadlier at contact distance as well as easier to carry while being more useful on a daily basis.
I do like having a handgun, but it does have limitations, and far too many people think that if they pull their gun that everything will be okay. They depend on the gun like a totem to ward of all evil. What do you do when things don't go the way you thought they would?
For one thing, on the street there is a saying "charge a gun and run from a knife". You never know how someone is going to react, but keep in mind that the knife rules in contact distance.
It does not take a Gracie to close 21 feet on you before you can draw and fire. An average criminal can do it easily.
Watch the video "Surviving Edged Weapons" for a good education on the topic.
If you pull your handgun on a guy with a knife at short or even medium range, and he chooses to kill you, barring a very lucky shot on your part, you ARE going to die. He may leak to death from the holes you poke in him, but if he is determined to kill you, you will not even live long enough to make it to the hospital.
To answer the question: I like both on my nightstand. If I wake up with someone with their hands wrapped around my throat, and I know have to fight my way out of my bed with an attacker on top of me, I am going to reach for the knife, and believe me he will be off me real fast.
The only advantage I see to using a gun is if the distance is greater than a couple yards (which is a rare occurence in a crime). Otherwise, a good knife is a better weapon in almost every way, as long as you get some training.
I feel that with no training in each, they are about equal, and the knife is probably still better. If you hand someone a knife that has no training in gun use or knife use, they will naturally be able to defend themselves better with the knife and they won't have to worry if it is loaded and how to work it as well as hitting the target under severe stress. It is very instinctive to "get medieval" and go "neanderthal animalistic" with a knife, anyone can do it even with no training.
As I write this out, I think that what it boils down to is that most people have a lot more training in how to use a gun for defense, so when they picture themselves and what they are better with, they are naturally better with the item that they have trained with: the gun. Therefore, they argue that the gun is the better weapon....for them! With equal training in both, the knife is the superior close quarters weapon in almost every way.
I am well trained in both gun and knife, and the more I learn on the topic the more I see that a handgun is a highly overrated form of defense against a determined attacker. But, I still like the options the gun provides, and I still choose to lug one around even though I do know that when push comes to shove, at close range, a knife is the superior weapon. I usually have a gun on me, but I ALWAYS have a knife on me, and the knife is my ultimate fallback when all else fails.
Ps- As a liberal, I would expect that you support all personal Rights, including the Right to defend myself with a gun. I have never understood why liberals got programmed into thinking they need to be anti-gun. Liberalism is supposed to be about personal Rights, and that should include owning and carrying a gun for personal defense. Furthermore, liberals are so quick to expand the first amendment to include everything under the sun, and quick to push personal choice, but someone want to limit or extinguish the second amendment and limit the choice in that personal issue. I do not understand the logic of the popular modern liberal mindset that extolls certain 'Rights' to the point of absurdity, but wants to take away other basic personal Rights from everyone else.
PPs- If you look closely at the law regarding Post Offices, it says that you are not allowed to carry a gun into a Post Office if you are a) planning on commiting a crime or b) are carrying illegally. Contrary to popular belief, if you are a licensed CCW you can technically, legally, carry a gun into a Post Office. I am sure people here won't believe me, and I would expect you not to, so the solution is easy: go read the law, posted on the Post Office wall and elsewhere, and you will see that I am correct.
[This message has been edited by DerGlockenpooper (edited 10-06-2000).]
A handgun gives you range over a knife. That is about it. A knife on the other hand has a LOT of other advantages: it never jams, it is nearly IMPOSSIBLE to disarm (as a trained person, I can guarantee you that if you think you can disarm a trained person's knife, you are very mistaken), it is easy to hit the target with, it never runs out of ammo, and it is deadlier at contact distance as well as easier to carry while being more useful on a daily basis.
I do like having a handgun, but it does have limitations, and far too many people think that if they pull their gun that everything will be okay. They depend on the gun like a totem to ward of all evil. What do you do when things don't go the way you thought they would?
For one thing, on the street there is a saying "charge a gun and run from a knife". You never know how someone is going to react, but keep in mind that the knife rules in contact distance.
It does not take a Gracie to close 21 feet on you before you can draw and fire. An average criminal can do it easily.
Watch the video "Surviving Edged Weapons" for a good education on the topic.
If you pull your handgun on a guy with a knife at short or even medium range, and he chooses to kill you, barring a very lucky shot on your part, you ARE going to die. He may leak to death from the holes you poke in him, but if he is determined to kill you, you will not even live long enough to make it to the hospital.
To answer the question: I like both on my nightstand. If I wake up with someone with their hands wrapped around my throat, and I know have to fight my way out of my bed with an attacker on top of me, I am going to reach for the knife, and believe me he will be off me real fast.
The only advantage I see to using a gun is if the distance is greater than a couple yards (which is a rare occurence in a crime). Otherwise, a good knife is a better weapon in almost every way, as long as you get some training.
I feel that with no training in each, they are about equal, and the knife is probably still better. If you hand someone a knife that has no training in gun use or knife use, they will naturally be able to defend themselves better with the knife and they won't have to worry if it is loaded and how to work it as well as hitting the target under severe stress. It is very instinctive to "get medieval" and go "neanderthal animalistic" with a knife, anyone can do it even with no training.
As I write this out, I think that what it boils down to is that most people have a lot more training in how to use a gun for defense, so when they picture themselves and what they are better with, they are naturally better with the item that they have trained with: the gun. Therefore, they argue that the gun is the better weapon....for them! With equal training in both, the knife is the superior close quarters weapon in almost every way.
I am well trained in both gun and knife, and the more I learn on the topic the more I see that a handgun is a highly overrated form of defense against a determined attacker. But, I still like the options the gun provides, and I still choose to lug one around even though I do know that when push comes to shove, at close range, a knife is the superior weapon. I usually have a gun on me, but I ALWAYS have a knife on me, and the knife is my ultimate fallback when all else fails.
Ps- As a liberal, I would expect that you support all personal Rights, including the Right to defend myself with a gun. I have never understood why liberals got programmed into thinking they need to be anti-gun. Liberalism is supposed to be about personal Rights, and that should include owning and carrying a gun for personal defense. Furthermore, liberals are so quick to expand the first amendment to include everything under the sun, and quick to push personal choice, but someone want to limit or extinguish the second amendment and limit the choice in that personal issue. I do not understand the logic of the popular modern liberal mindset that extolls certain 'Rights' to the point of absurdity, but wants to take away other basic personal Rights from everyone else.
PPs- If you look closely at the law regarding Post Offices, it says that you are not allowed to carry a gun into a Post Office if you are a) planning on commiting a crime or b) are carrying illegally. Contrary to popular belief, if you are a licensed CCW you can technically, legally, carry a gun into a Post Office. I am sure people here won't believe me, and I would expect you not to, so the solution is easy: go read the law, posted on the Post Office wall and elsewhere, and you will see that I am correct.
[This message has been edited by DerGlockenpooper (edited 10-06-2000).]
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2000
- Messages
- 51
Primary ?........if possible......gun............if forced..........knife..............which I will use to fight my way to a gun.
Knives are good...........but a .45 makes a REALLY big hole
.
Comrad chang.........I'd vote for the 870.......but either one is a sound choice.
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SarcasmGuy
"fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering"
Yoda
Knives are good...........but a .45 makes a REALLY big hole
Comrad chang.........I'd vote for the 870.......but either one is a sound choice.
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SarcasmGuy
"fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering"
Yoda
For defense in the home, I'd have to go with a firearm, like a shotgun or handgun, with lots of training, but the only real experience I have in a defensive situation was with a knife. I think the advice concerning training and thinking is right to the point.
- Joined
- Oct 3, 1998
- Messages
- 1,774
I am a firm advocate of our 2nd Amendmant. My family never goes un-armed. Usually a Glock 27 with 2 spare mags defends us when we are out and about. We live in a Liberal dominated state but that doesnt make us go un-armed. We DO have certain rights that can NEVER be taken away!!!! I have NEVER been searched nor has my wife and we carry firearms regularly.
IF you NEED a permit to be free you aint FREE no more...
As for the knife/gun debate... There are scenarios where a gun is THE ONLY weapon then again there are times when a knife is THE BEST weapon... It depends on the fight at hand.. I say go with both... Good GUN, and GOOD knife/knives.... BUT dont ever take ANY knife to a gun fight... I dont give a ratts ass WHO made it!!!!
Take Care
Trace Rinaldi
IF you NEED a permit to be free you aint FREE no more...
As for the knife/gun debate... There are scenarios where a gun is THE ONLY weapon then again there are times when a knife is THE BEST weapon... It depends on the fight at hand.. I say go with both... Good GUN, and GOOD knife/knives.... BUT dont ever take ANY knife to a gun fight... I dont give a ratts ass WHO made it!!!!
Take Care
Trace Rinaldi
I carry a sidearm every day, it's a part of my job. I also carry while off duty, no matter where I go, with some very few exceptions. Along with my Glock 19 and more often I've a folding knife of some sort in a pocket. Right now it's a very sweet MOD trident auto. However, in my department we rotate from the road to the jail every 18 months or so. As luck has it, I am in the jail. So both the gun and the knife I like to have on my person, stay in my locker once I get to work.
People have been saying a varity of things about training, being the most important though I don't think thats where this thread was meant to go. I have to agree there. No matter what you carry, they way you REACT to a situation is whats most important. Knives and Guns are great from defense, IF you are capable of using them effectively. I think anyone with some Law Enforcement training knows that up close and personal having a gun can almost be a liability. Wrestling and guns don't mix. Anyway, before I ramble on, I'll give my answer as: A gun, a knife and a boatload of training.
Scott
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Indeed, if thou hurteth in thy efforts and thou
suffer painful dings, then thou art Doing It Right
RW
People have been saying a varity of things about training, being the most important though I don't think thats where this thread was meant to go. I have to agree there. No matter what you carry, they way you REACT to a situation is whats most important. Knives and Guns are great from defense, IF you are capable of using them effectively. I think anyone with some Law Enforcement training knows that up close and personal having a gun can almost be a liability. Wrestling and guns don't mix. Anyway, before I ramble on, I'll give my answer as: A gun, a knife and a boatload of training.
Scott
------------------
Indeed, if thou hurteth in thy efforts and thou
suffer painful dings, then thou art Doing It Right
RW