Has Busse ever competed with Mad dog?

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Feb 1, 2001
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I own several Busse blades and I think like many others that they are the "Toughest"! I was just wondering if anyone has ever used both knives and what they thought of them? I know that MD uses 0-1 in there knives and INFI and maybe even A-2 is superior to 0-1. MD also says that their ATAK was the only knife to pass some government test and was awarded a contract for it or something like that? Was Busse in this test?
 
Head for the hills.....:)

This is an old story. Let me just say one word. BUSSE!
 
This has been beat to death over and over again since the old days of recdotknives years ago. Busse's usually won. this very debate is what led the guy that ran Central florida Knife and Tool (can't remember the name) to leave redotknives and form knife forums. Then he screwed Spark and Mike Turber decided to bank roll bladeforums. In short, MD folks love MD's and Busse folks love Busse's. I have had both and prefer Busse's but wouldn't throw out a MD. Some people would rather argue than do anything else and that is why you have this site. (ramble off)
 
You had to ask?

Everyone duck she is going to blow!

BTW, if you run a search you will probably come across some 10,000 posts on the subject, including testing with every kind of scientific aparatus.
 
Thanks Guys! I should have figured this one was already beaten to death! I'll do a search on it. I still don't think you can top a Busse as most would agree!!!!
 
Somebody posred a question a while back wanting to know how to build a flamethrower. Well, this is how...A Mad Dog vs. Busse thread.
 
Chris :

[Mad Dog vs Busse]

has ever used both knives and what they thought of them?

I have used two TUSKS from McClung, one fully serrated and another partial,
and a straight handled Battle Mistress and a Basic #7 from Busse Combat.
Comments :

Handles :

Ergonomics - The grip McClung uses on the TUSK is very broad and filled my
hand very well. The index finger cut out also allows a strong snap cut. On
the negative it could be uncomfortable depending on your hand size. This was
why Mission decided not to use an index finger cutout on the MPK, since they
wanted to offer it wide scale, they could not use a feature that would be too
user specific.

Security - McClung uses a kind of dimpling on the G10, but it is not as
secure as the checkering that Busse uses. Then again there is always the
issue of aggression vs comfort. The shape of McClung's grips gives a high
security, but the Talons on the Busse grips provide an absolute level,
though uncomfortable through impacts.

Durability - Both the Micarta that Busse Combat uses and the G10/11 that
McClung uses are very durable. They can withstand extreme impacts (beat on
them with a hammer), they are very difficult to burn (can take exposure to
direct flame), and they don't readily absorb solvents so even if you soak
them in gas and light it, they burn out readily. They are very resistant to
cuts, punctures and general abrasion and have a high insulative value.

Misc - McClung uses a fully enclosed grip. This means your hand is not in
contact with any exposed steel. This is very good for providing protection
in regards to extreme temperatures as well as electrical shock. However the
partial tang that McClung uses gives up a lot of strength as opposed to the
full tang on the Busse, and McClung has a very square transition at the
front of the tang which is a serious design flaw.

Blade :

Cutting ability - Both blades have full flat primary grinds, are of similar
stock thickness and length, and mass and balance. The Busse Combat blade
does come with a more acute edge NIB and thus will out cut and out chop the
TUSK. Because of the greater durability of INFI it can be honed to a finer
edge than McClung's blades without giving up a loss in durability. The TUSK
does have what McClung calls "a positive included angle", which basically
means the edge is not parallel to the spine, it will enhance the slicing
ability as well as the performance on rocking push cuts.

Edge retention/durability - McClung heat treats his O1 to around 62-63 RC
and thus the strength of the edge is very high, it therefore resists rolling
quite well. I was quite pleased with the edge retention of both TUSKs on
soft materials like woods. The Busse blades will have more of an advantage
in more abrasive work. The edge on both TUSKS was brittle and fractured far
more easily than the edge on the Battle Mistress. The latter also makes
sharpening more time consuming.

Durability - The Battle Mistress has a uniform hardness of around 60 RC and
thus will be stronger than the TUSKs because some parts of it (spine) are
very soft and therefore weak. The tip on the differential hardened blade is
also a problem because it will be either left soft and weak or hard and
brittle. The softer spine on the TUSK should allow it to take a greater flex
than the Battle Mistress and absorb harder impacts without failure, but
neither is the case. I snapped one TUSK in half, and broke a huge inch sized
scallop out of the other on light stress work.

Sheath :

General - McClung's Kydex work is the equal of any that I have seen. The
Busse Combat sheaths I have seen (older Kydex rigs) are in the same class. I
have no experience with the leather or Cordura Busse rigs.

Warranty :

General - McClung has a claused warranty that only applies to the original
owner. Basically he will fix or replace the knife if he feels he should,
this is a common cutlery warranty. Busse has a full warranty covering all
major damage, this is not a common cutlery warranty.

Misc :

Features - McClung offers a serration pattern. It is chisel tipped like
Reeves uses but with more square corners. It is very durable (for a
serration pattern), but it difficult to cut materials with unless they are
under high tension because of the square corners which make a smooth cut
impossible. Busse has hinted at a serration pattern in the past.

Cost : The TUSK is about $1000, and the Battle Mistress $350, considering
that and the above, it is not much of a decision for me.

More details are given in the varous reviews.

-Cliff
 
That is a very fair and diplomatic review.
It's still BUSSE :)
 
Thank you very much Cliff!! You must have the best job in the world being able to use all these different blades and test them! I have one question about differential heat treatment. I thought if a blade was differentialy treated it was overall stronger than something all the way through. I remember when you tested a Himalayan Imports Ang khola and was not able to bend or dammage the blade if I remember right. H.I.'s are Zone tempered and I know they have an unbeleveable reputation for strength and durability.

$1,000 for a combat knife that can be snaped into with no problem? I think I'll stick with the almighty Busse!!
 
SkagSig40 :

I thought if a blade was differentialy treated it was overall stronger than something all the way through.

No it will be quite a bit weaker, how much so depends on how much of the blade is left at the lower RC and just how low the RC dips down for the softer sections. To first order, strength is linear with RC. So for example a 60 RC blade is 50% stronger than a 40 RC blade.

I remember when you tested a Himalayan Imports Ang khola and was not able to bend or dammage the blade if I remember right. H.I.'s are Zone tempered and I know they have an unbeleveable reputation for strength and durability.

Yes, the reason being because of the huge cross section. Bill Martino would consider 1/4" to be a very thin blade indeed, however for the rest of the cutlery industry this is very thick. Most of the HI khukuris are 3/8"+, with the Ang Khola's (the ones I used), being 1/2"+ through the spine. They are also a lot wider than bowie class blades as well.


Note however that even with all the thickness and width you still need a decent hardness to get a high level of strength. I was able to deform two khukuris from Gurkha House that were of similar thickness to HI khukuris, but they were significantly weaker because they were softer. I bent one laterally, and twisted the other.


$1,000 for a combat knife that can be snaped into with no problem?

My brother was standing alongside me when I broke the first one, I was chopping it into a 4x4 and snapping down on the blade breaking pieces of wood out when the blade snapped in half. When I told him later on I was getting a replacement he quipped that I should ask McClung to write "fragile" on the box to make sure it got to me in one piece. He was also around when the second one broke, I was going to let him do the testing actually so I could better see what was going on, but decided against it because of "original owner" issues. He didn't want much to do with it in any case. He also put the most wear on the Basic I had. He is one of the people I use to confirm a lot of the performance aspects in the reviews. His technique is a little wilder than mine, so it gives me another perspective.

On an amusing note, right about that time I broke the second TUSK I had my Battle Mistress on order. So to be fair I call up Busse intending to give him a full description of what I wanted the knife to do, so I could get his perspective on it before I used it. The amusing part was that there was a bit of mixup in the initial conversation and he thought I had said that I had broken two Battle Mistresses chopping/prying in wood and wanted to know if I bought another one would I have similar problems. Needless to say the conversation was a bit spirited.

-Cliff
 
That is very funny! Jerry must have thought you were telling stories...breaking a BM on a piece of wood!!!:D I assume everything was cleared up in laughter!!:D
 
If you take a bowl of water at room temperature and sprinkle black pepper into it so as to allow the surface of the water to be fairly uniformly covered with the floating ground black pepper granules then gently insert the corner of a bar of soap into the water you will see all the pepper granules flee to the perimeter of the bowl in an effort to escape proximity to the soap.

Such as it is if you bring a Battle Mistress to a lumber yard with the 4x4s!:eek: :D
 
I did a little websearching, and found some of the story on the Mad Dog TUSK knives Cliff tested and broke. Wow! Reminds me of when Frank Warren came over here and made his first post by starting a thread called "Is a Busse Knife a Puss* Knife?" (I know Frankenwarren on 1911TechTalk, and he loves to stir up the S**t every chance he gets). Boy, did the Mad Dog faithful rise to the occasion! And McClung himself did all kinds of hemming and hawing over the warranty vs Cliff's "abuse." The flames were flying.

I think Cliff's post here is admirably restrained.

I just searched out the Mad Dog site. For the price of a TUSK, I can get three Steelhearts, and have enough left over to send them to Normark for nice sheaths -- and I won't break the Steelhearts.

Now I'm off to look for those Brend knives that were mentioned. Surely there must be something suitable to test against a Busse... :D

Lane

Awwwh darn, all I found were folders. That was a bum steer. :(
 
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