Heat treat too hot?

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Jun 8, 2018
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I just heat treated my second knife ever and instead of using propane I used a coal fire. The steel I was using was 01 tool steel. It was very bright outside so I couldn't see the colors of the steel therefore I think I burned the metal. The blade had bubble marks all over it that didn't go to deep and I managed to grind out. Despite not seeing the nice bright orange color I magnet tested the blade before I quenched and she was good to go. Is that bubbling effect something terrible or did I just get the blade a bit to hot?
 
I let it cool a bit then brought it back up to non magnetic and quenched it. Because it got that hot is the blade at risk of breaking now?
 
I recommend heat treating at night if you have to do it outside. Your looking for a bright red, not even orange. 01 has a lot of chromium in it and heating it up that hot makes these types of steel change composition fast. Best to do a quick finish and move on. Coal forges are known to burn steel. I recommend propain In till you get used to the colors of hot steel.

Hope that helps,
 
It depends on the bubbling, though I would caution that O1 really prefers a pid controlled oven or similar over a coal forge or torch for HT. What likely happened was not bubbling per say but rather the formation of an oxide layer that was very thick and began to separate. You probably got the blade to around 2k F.

Decarb will likely be an issue, but if the blade was thick, probably manageable. As to the structure of the steel, you will have had a good deal of grain growth. Presuming there are no cracks in the blade, you could simply run through another normalization cycle and HT the blade again. This may salvage it to some degree, but O1 likes a temp controlled soak. If your intent is to use a torch or coal forge for HT, I recomend using 1080 or 1084 in lieu of O1.
 
Your looking for a bright red, not even orange.

Not being an ass, but colors are very subjective. I used a temp gauge (rated up to 3000F) in my propane forge, and I was surprised at how hot what I called bright red was. I'd call it more of a dull red.

My suggestion Austin, is the next time, do it at night, and start checking the magnetism at a dull red.
 
Thanks guys, this is a lot of good information. I sanded off the bubbling and I think Joe is right, I think it was just an oxide layer because the steel had no cracks or deformations. I ran through 2 one hour temper cycles and got the blade to a deep straw color. Let it cool and smacked it off my work bench really hard 4 or 5 times and nothing happened... would the temper reduce the grain structure?
 
would the temper reduce the grain structure?

No, grain size is reduced by thermal cycling. There are lots of different articles on doing that. I’d suggest you look at Larrin’s blog on knifesteelnerds.com for specifics.
 
Not being an ass, but colors are very subjective. I used a temp gauge (rated up to 3000F) in my propane forge, and I was surprised at how hot what I called bright red was. I'd call it more of a dull red.

My suggestion Austin, is the next time, do it at night, and start checking the magnetism at a dull red.

Absolutely subjective. All depends on the lighting around you.

Definitely the better way is the magnet trick. About 25 to 50 degrees past non magnetic.
 
the key with 'blind' magnet checking is checking every 3 seconds until it is non-magnetic and then 3-6 more seconds and then quench.

It's not "if its anywhere above non-magnetic its fine."
 
Hoss,

I would also start over. I may keep the knife and use/test it untill it breaks to get an idea of what I may have done to the steel. But the fact of the matter is that heating a peice of metal way above normal HT range doesn't damage it in a way that can't be fixed as long as it doesnt crack in the subsequent quench.

The problems it creates:
Grain growth (this is assured, but can be remedied as previously discussed)
Micro fractures from the quench (no simple fix, but etching in ferric would let you know)
Significant decarb (this is possible but unlikely in a coal flame)
Not reaching an ideal hardness from having been austenitized at too high a temp prior to quench (also assured, but fixed by redoing a HT)

Steel doesn't have a function where it says: "You brought me to forging temperatures during austenitization, I will never be the same." Furthermore, if the quench was into one of the slower oils, I suspect that the chance of microfracturing is low. He was using O1 and it is pretty forgiving.

Practically we are essentially talking about him quenching from a temperature in the 1800-1900 F range. That doesn't make for an ideal HT by any stretch, but it doesnt make the resulting block of metal something other than O1. Normalizing, refining the grain, etc should fix it.

The big deal that I see is that O1 really likes a longish soak at austinitizing temp prior to the quench, and it doesn't sound like the OP has the tools to do it. So until he has an oven or pot, it seems to me he would be much better served by using one of the simple steels.
 
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