Heat Treating Oven Newbie Questions - Learn Me Up!

Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
1,198
Hey guys, as many of yall know from my last thread, I've recently build a HT oven. I've never used an oven before so I have some questions for you seasoned pros!

  1. Do you: A.) get your oven to temp then insert your knife; or B.) put your knife into the oven from the start?
    • Does this answer change when HT-ing SS vs Carbon blades?
  2. Do you use SS foil for both SS and carbon blades?
  3. How many degrees over your target quenching temperature do you bring your blade up to in order to accommodate the door opening and air time to quench oil / plates?
  4. What temp do yall's SSRs run?
  5. How long do you let your oven soak @ target temps before inserting your knife?
Any other new oven user tips?
Cheers,
JKeeton
 
I start the oven and let it get to target temp, then equalize for 45 min. Then pop blade in. After the door is closed, the temp will first drop below target, then overshoot, then go below target temp with one or two celcius and then stabilize at target temp. This takes 5-10 min. Once stabilized at target temp I start the clock for soak time. 15-20 min for the stainless I use.
 
Everything S Scaniaman said and only use foil for SS so you aren't trying to cut a knife out of foil to quench it. I don't try to adjust for the door opening just put it at the target temp it won't take long to come back up. I probably only let it soak at temp before inserting knife for 15-30. Also I'm not a seasoned pro..
 
1/ As a general rule, it is probably best to let the oven stabilise at the desired temperature before putting the blade in. The main reason I can see for doing this, is not that any particular sequence is technically "better" than any other sequence, assuming you always follow the same sequence and optimise it, but that it is a PITA if your optimised sequence involves starting from a cold oven. It will take several hours to cool from Austenitizing temperature, so starting from cold each time will mean you can only HT one batch of blades a day.
2/ SS foil is usually used for air-hardening steels. These will harden with a relatively slow quench and the use of quench plates with the foil still in place provides fast enough cooling to harden them. The quench plates are there to minimise distortion as much as to provide fast cooling. It is worth understanding that stainless steels are stainless because they are MORE reactive than Carbon steels. Oversimplifying slightly, the Chromium in the stainless readily forms an Oxide which takes up the same volume as the base metal underneath and seals against further attack by Oxygen. If the Oxide layer gets scratched, a new Oxide layer will form very quickly on the exposed metal and the Oxide "skin" is self-repairing. At high temperatures, the Oxide layer on a stainless steel is not able to keep the Oxygen from reaching the metal beneath anything like as effectively as at normal temperatures and the Oxide layer gets thicker. The simplest way to deal with Oxidation of stainless steels is to prevent it by excluding Oxygen, which is what the foil packet does.
Iron and Carbon steels form Oxides which take up more space than the original metal, so they bunch/break up and allow further Oxidation to take place underneath.
With Carbon steels, which are usually water- or oil-hardening, the required quench speed is usually too fast for a foil packet: the foil is a stainless steel, which is a fairly poor conductor of heat as metals go, and there will be a thin layer of air between the foil and the blade, which is a further insulator.
Carbon steels are usually Austenitized bare, or with a thin coating of an anti-scale compound. The anti-scale compound excludes air from the surface, but is a thin layer in intimate contact with the surface and does not slow the cooling significantly when the blade is quenched in oil or water.
3/ Zero degrees. In part this is down to your process and your mindset. If someone else's process says 1575 degrees and you find your process works better at 1580 degrees, you can either view it as an extra 5 degrees over "the" temperature to allow for differences between their system and yours, or you can consider your target temperature, with your kit, to be 1580 degrees.
4/ TBH I don't know. As cool as possible is the realistic answer. Use the biggest heatsink you reasonably can, use the best heatsink paste you can get (I used Arctic Silver on most of my early ones because the computer nerds seemed even more anal about heat transfer than I am and it's what they seemed to use on CPU heatsinks). Ensure good airflow. A metal enclosure usually gets rid of heat better than a plastic one. Keep a spare SSR in stock
5/ "Long enough". It's really not helpful, I know. Between 10 and 20 minutes after the setpoint is reached seems reasonable with most of the HT ovens I've built and/or seen, but you'll need to watch what happens with yours: You want to get a consistently repeatable procedure with your equipment. What other people do with different equipment is not something you should worry about overmuch.
 
Last edited:
It’s a furnace. Ovens are lower temp units. You built a high temp furnace

1) yes A. Furnace to temp first
Doesn’t matter carbon or ss

2) foil for stainless or high alloy/high temp tool steels such as A2 or z wear which are not stainless

3) zero. You do not make any adjustment for this. But you should learn and know the temp drop for your furnace. Each make is different.

5) i don’t think u need to let the furnace soak at temp and it depends on the set point. At 2000 F there’s so much radiant heat that there’s just no need for a unit soak

more important IMO is to not be cheap on the soak time for the blades
 
I will elaborate on #3:
The temperature drop in the quench is from a metallurgically pre-determined set point. If you raise the set point, you are raising the austenitization point. The drop from opening the door and the time in the air before the quench are insignificant (and actually a part of the cooling curve) as long as the blade goes into the quench at 1300°F of higher. The blade looses very little heat in the few seconds between the oven and quench.

What is important is to get past the pearlite nose, which is the part of the cooling curve between 1200°F and 900°F. The time needed for the blade to "miss the pearlite nose" varies from less than one second for 1095 and W2 to several minutes for most stainless steels. This is the job of the quenchant, not in how fast or hot you get it from oven to quenchant. In a CCC/CC-T/IT/TTT graph you want to be to the left of the nose.

Look at this chart and you can see why it is called a "nose":
Continuous-Cooling-Transformation-C-T-Diagram.jpg

1095ttt.jpg
 
So what I’m gathering from that chart, is you need to be below 800° in one second after quenching the blade. Is that correct?
 
Yes, that is correct. This is why the fast quench steels, like 1095/W2/Hitachi White/etc., need a very fast quenchant like Park's #50, or brine. Other steels with a longer time to pass the nose use slower quenchants like Park's AAA or mineral/vegetable oil.

What my point was is that the drop in temperature while removing from the oven is not part of that short time period. It is the time of the drop in temperature once it enters the quenchant that is most important.
 
Back
Top