Help me come to grips with SAKs

the edge retention on a SAK isn't as bad as people say, honestly, i think the point about SAK's needing sharpening more often because they're used more is a good point.....

i've been performing another "Cut-Off" experiment myself, i take the little plastic ring off one of those 20 Oz "Life Water" vitamin water bottles, the ring that stays on the bottle when you twist off the safety cap, and have been cutting that plastic ring with a few different knives, seeing how much pressure it takes and the condition of the edge after the cut, cutting surface is my particle board desk;

Vic. One Handed Trekker (serrated blade) ("Mystery" SAK steel)
Vic CyberTool 34 large blade (SAK steel)
Spyderco Cricket (VG-10, thin hollow ground)
Spyderco Rescue(VG-10, thick saber grind)
Kershaw Leek (420HC, thin flat grind)

Cricket; decent pressure required to push the belly of the blade through the plastic, clean cut, no edge deformation

Rescue; HEAVY pressure required to cut cutting with the second serration from the tip incomplete cut, there was a *tiny* fragment of plastic flashing between the two edges of the cut, no edge deformation

Leek; slightly less pressure than the Cricket required, perfectly clean cut no edge deformation

CyberTool 34; half the pressure of the Cricket required on the large blade, about the same pressure on the small blade, perfectly clean cut, no edge deformation,

OHT; half the pressure of the CyberTool's large blade, perfectly clean cut, used the third serration point from the tip, pressure on the "spine" of the plastic ring, no edge deformation, the OHT required the least pressure to cut the plastic ring, and still had a perfectly clean cut

in terms of the ease of cutting the plastic ring, i'd rank the knives this way (best to worst);
1;Vic. OHT
2; Vic. CyberTool large blade
3; Vic CyberTool small blade
4; Leek
5; Cricket
6; Rescue

the "inferior" steel of the SAK easily outcut my "SuperSteel" VG-10 Spydercos, heck, even the Leek outcut the Spydies on the hard plastic ring

next test; my standard cardboard box cut-off competition (next post)
 
Cardboard box cut-off results (15.5" high box)

Rescue; 15.5" cut, it completely cut through the box, slightly rough edges, no tearing, no resistance
Cricket; 15" cut, almost complete cut through the box, clean edges, slight resistance
Leek; 7" cut, clean cut, medium resistance
CyberTool large blade; 14" cut, clean cut, no resistance
CyberTool small blade; 8" cut, clean cut, no resistance
OHT; 15" cut, clean at the start of the cut, slight rough edges when the serrated section was cutting, no resistance throughout

as expected, the Spydies just barely beat out the SAK's in the cardboard cut-off test, it was a close call, however, the SAK's had almost no resistance during the cut, due to the thin flat grinds....

and bear in mind two things from this test...

the SAK's more than held their own with the "SuperSteel" Spydies, and did so with far less resistance than the Spydies

the little 1" blade on the CyberTool actually out-cut the 3" blade on the Leek, and did so with less resistance
 
I can already appreciate the fact that SAKs are useful. I've only had the EVO 16 in my pocket for an hour or so, and haven't used it, but just openning the various tools suggests many uses.

The EVO 16 is not too big either and carries nicely at the bottom of my pocket.

So far I'm smiling. :) No, I mean :D
 
MacTech,

How are you determining pressure required to cut? Are you just guessing or using a scale or what?

Also, what do you deem HEAVY, and LIGHT pressure? How many grams?

Are you push cutting or draw cutting?
 
Joe, i admit my tests aren't scientific in the least, it's all just guestimates and hand pressure, as far as the cut-off test, i pretty much let the weight of the knife do the cutting, all i do is start at the tang and draw the blade towards me, yes there is a *tiny* amount of downward pressure involved, but once the knife either stops, or the point exits the medium being cut, the test is over

for example, the Leek bound midway through the cut and just stopped, wheras the Rescue couldv'e kept cutting if i had more cardboard available
 
felinevet said:
Sorry, in my previous post I forgot to mention the Stainless Steel, Gold, Platinum, Sterling Silver, etc. that can be had as specialties from Vic.
Click to expand...
No need to apologize, felinevet. I was just being facetious with plowboy. No one I know has any of those diamond-studded Victorinox knives, and I doubt that anyone else on BladeForums knows someone who does. :D

There's "premium," and there's something else that I could put $67,000 towards, besides a pocket knife! A college education comes to mind, for example.... ;)

GeoThorn
 
I used love big folders like the Endura and Buck 110 but I bought a Vic Spartan for $14 at Target to take camping and have pretty much converted to SAK carry ever since. I now own a Spartan, Tinker, Compact, Soldier, Alox Solo, and 2 Classics.
 
allenC said:
Yep, the SAK would win...The Endura 4 is the one I reach for about 98% of the time because it is quick and easy to access and deploy, and most of my daily cutting tasks are rather light in nature (cutting a string or paper, slicing open a package, cutting down boxes, stuff like that).
Plus the Endura 4 can be used for self-defense if need arises.

But if I needed to cut several large pieces of wood in to halves, the Fieldmaster's woodsaw would be the blade of choice.
There is simply no way that the Endura 4's VG-10 blade can compete with the woodsaw.
It's not a matter of blade-steel, it's a matter of design.
The Victorinox woodsaws are extremely efficient little beavers!
.
Click to expand...

Actually, you can have all the above with one of several of the 110mm "One Hand" Vic SAKs. My favorite is the One Hand Fireman - it has the quick-to-deploy One-Hand opening feature, the locking blade, as well as a TERRIFIC Vic saw blade and various other useful tools! If you're in a jurisdiction where a 3.25" blade is legal (the length of the main blade on the OHF) then that would be a great one-knife EDC for you.

- Tim
 
plowboy said:
...Hey, Joe Dirt, I got the Wenger...I liked the looks of it. But I tell you what, I make you a promise to pick up a comparable Victorinox and see what the "real thing" is all about. I'll probably end up ordering it online, so it may be a week or two before I let you know my preference. But I promise to get the Victorinox....
Click to expand...

Hey Plowboy - order those SAKs from FELINEVET here on BF. Not only is he a great guy, not only are his prices terrific and his service blindingly fast, but the (modest) profit that he makes goes to his non-profit feline vet foundation. Help the kitties! :D

- Tim
 
With all the fancy knives coming out nowadays, it's easy to forget about SAK's. I brought out my 10$ keychain sized SAK the other day and was surprised at how well it cut, after using CRKT's, Sypdies etc.

They have very thin blades that sharpen easily, making an excellent slicer. I EDC a Delica, comparing the blade on that or my Leatherman Wave, the SAK's are so much thinner. For pure cutting tasks this is excellent. When making wood shavings for fire or peeling food, it makes cuts much easier to control and produces less of a wedging action.

Push-cutting a piece of printer paper, my SAK produces cleaner cuts with a duller edge than my Delica does at shaving sharp.

As others have stated, red handled SAKs have an inherit advantadge of being completely people friendly. It'd be a rare day indeed to get hassled over a SAK by someone, assuming you have an oval-shaped, red handled one that the average joe is familiar with.

They're definately worth it. At how cheap and easy they are to obtain especially. If you are ever without a knife and need one, say you're travelling and couldn't bring one...just drop 10 - 20$ at a local walmart, kmart, gander mountain etc. They're simple, but very effective designs.

I think a good combo is a medium sized SAK and a nice folder. My ideal combination would be something like a Spyderco Paramilitairy and a SAK hiker. Sometimes having that big beefy folder can be useful, and with how good they are nowadays some are comparable to a fixed blade in a lot of tasks.

Does anyone know of a place where you could order quantities of 5 - 20 VICs for a discounted price? I'd be interested in ordering say, 10 of a model I really like, just so I could EDC one, throw one in the car etc, have a bunch for backup.
 
tcolling said:
Hey Plowboy - order those SAKs from FELINEVET here on BF. Not only is he a great guy, not only are his prices terrific and his service blindingly fast, but the (modest) profit that he makes goes to his non-profit feline vet foundation. Help the kitties! :D

- Tim
Click to expand...


I'll checkout FELINEVET. Thanks.
 
Vivi said:
As others have stated, red handled SAKs have an inherit advantadge of being completely people friendly. It'd be a rare day indeed to get hassled over a SAK by someone, assuming you have an oval-shaped, red handled one that the average joe is familiar with.

They're definately worth it. At how cheap and easy they are to obtain especially. If you are ever without a knife and need one, say you're travelling and couldn't bring one...just drop 10 - 20$ at a local walmart, kmart, gander mountain etc. They're simple, but very effective designs.
Click to expand...


Good points. I do travel from time- to - time and miss having a knife.
:)
 
Actually, you can have all the above with one of several of the 110mm "One Hand" Vic SAKs. My favorite is the One Hand Fireman - it has the quick-to-deploy One-Hand opening feature, the locking blade, as well as a TERRIFIC Vic saw blade and various other useful tools! If you're in a jurisdiction where a 3.25" blade is legal (the length of the main blade on the OHF) then that would be a great one-knife EDC for you.

- Tim
Click to expand...

Thanks Tim, I'll definitely check them out.
 
Okay, two days in my pocket and the EVO 16 is growing on me. The first day it saw very little use. Yesterday, however, I decided it was time to change the air filters in the return vents of my home heating and air system. In the past I've gone to the tool box and dug out a screw driver to pry the closing levers open on the vents. As much as I trust the ability of my top-of-the-line spydercos, I've never wanted to risk the s30v blades to prying activities. I decided the SAK must be tested in this way. I used the common screw driver tool and it worked very well to open the levers...no broken blade tips. :)

I also used the knife as I repaired a flat on my mountain bike.

Next, I needed to open a new bottle of vitiams and the can openner with its sharp (almost hawkbill) tip removed the plastic fitted around the cap easily. The hawkbill shape worked great. I thinking this sharp hawkbill type can openner may beat the ones on the Victorinoxs.

The knife also saw a few other uses throughout the day.

And Joe Dirt I've kept my promise to you to try a Victorinox. Yesterday I went goofy and ordered the following:

Huntsman
Pioneer Harvester
Hunter (lockback)
Outrider
Swiss Tool Spirit.


So, I'm keeping my promise to try Victorinox. With this group I should get a good feel for Victorinox. I guess it will be a few days before they arrive. The thing that really amazes me is that I got the 5 Victorinoxs (including the Swill Tool Spirit) for little more than I would pay for one of the typical high-end Spydercos I'm used to.

While I'm still trying to adjust my thinking about fancy s30v steel and G10 or Ti scales, I have learned that the SAK is truly functional. And I guess that's what tools are suppose to be....functional.

I'll report back in a few days with my take on Wenger v. Victorinox.

I've got to say, however, that I still like the ergonomic handle of the EVO.

Thanks for all of your input.

:)
 
plowboy said:
Huntsman
Pioneer Harvester
Hunter (lockback)
Outrider
Swiss Tool Spirit.
Click to expand...
Wow! That's quite a haul! Makes me want to buy another SAK. You're playing with fire, however, plowboy. They'll grow on you, and you'll want more. ;)

FYI, Victorinox purchased Wenger last April, 2005. The Wenger and Victorinox lines will be kept separate, however, as both companies have, and have had, their separate reputations and admirers throughout the years.

My local Dick's Sporting Goods carries Wenger. I went over there, the other night, and I asked the clerk for "Swiss Army Knives" and he led me to a revolving display. One interesting thing I noted was that the toothpick and tweezers on the Wengers are positioned differently than on the Victorinox. They look more difficult to lose on the Wenger SAKs, in my opinion, though, I have to say, I haven't lost any Victorinox tweezers or toothpicks before.

I think that I might have to get a Wenger and try it out. That ergonomic EVO line looks and sounds good!

GeoThorn
 
Hi Plowboy,

I've been carrying Victorinox Huntsmen since I was around 14 (I'm now 62). I'm on my third one through abuse or loss. I also collect Vics - I have about 400 of them. As a Mechanical Engineer with my graduate studies in Metallurgy, I've always thought SAK designers must be cool people.

I also collect other blades and multitools. In the end, I agree with the edge retention comments and the ease of sharpening regarding the Vics. I also like the features and the costs.

At the moment, I'm a tad underdressed. I have one Vic Huntsman, one Vic Classic and a Spydie Byrd. Tomorrow,on a day off, I'll probably add either a Vic Spirit or a Leatherman Charge XTi.

Cheers - Joe
 
Hey geothorn and JoeBW,

Thanks for your notes.

Geothorn, go ahead and try the EVO. I really like the handle. Let me know what you think about it v. your Vics.

Wow, JoeBW. 400 Vics? :thumbup: It's good to hear you coming from your engineering background saying good things about the SAKs. Back before I started reading about all these fancy steels I was quite happy with an old Gerber (probably had 420 or similar steel). Now I've learned to much ... or become subject to too much sales pitch ... about the super steels. And I do like them! I looked at a steel chart and it looks like the SAKs have a steel similar to 425 modified.

Anyway, I'm having fun exploring the SAKs. Even given that I just ordered the 5 Vics yesterday, I'm already looking at what will be next. :p Kinda crazy.

Hey, JoeBW what do you think of the Vic Spirit vs. the Leatherman Charge? I have given some thought to the Charge since it has the 154 CM steel...oh no, here I go again. I understand that CPM is now making a CPM 154 steel.

Thanks everyone. I'll be carrying more SAKs I'm sure.

I'll let you know what I think of the Vics in a few days.

:)
 
Today in the mail I got 2 new SAK's.

Victorinox Huntsman
Victorinox 2003 Soldier

Good stuff :)
 
Nice thread Plowboy, I'm learning alot! Just wanted to add my $.02- Like you, I've been getting into the premium steels lately, and in addition to my SAK I EDC a Delica or a Native during the week, and a BM RSK or a SOG on the weekend.

About 20 years ago I discovered a small Vic that I love- unfortunately, I don't recall the name of this model, but it's 2 3/4" long closed, with blade, nail file, scissors, toothpick and tweezers. I liked it because the scissors were a more useful size than the smaller, more common model. If anyone knows the name of this model, please post it- this model seems to be getting hard to find.

To get to the point, I work for the local phone company and got into a situation where I wanted to cut out a 25 pair splice as an example for a class. That meant cutting 100 26 ga wires. This would normally be done with a pair of snips, but I didn't have any handy. Not wanting to dull my Delica, I pulled out my little SAK and couldn't believe how well it cut. I actually expected to damage the the blade (giving me an excuse to buy a new one). Anyway, it cut through all the wires- no damage to the blade and somehow it even still felt fairly sharp! I was blown away!

Can't wait to hear your comparison between Vic and Wenger!
 
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