Help with a new 8" chef's knife

I use a Corian cutting board (MMA Acrylic plastic). It is very uniform, sanitary, and most importantly doesn't contain Silicates like many wooden boards. One of my favorite kitchen knives is a Stellite 6-K paring knife with a 4" X .027" thick full tang blade. It was made by George (Mr. Stellite) Young. I touch up the micro edge by steeling the knife on a Zirconium Carbide ceramic blade.
My beef about the expensive VG-10 kitchen knives is that you're paying $200.00 for a San Mai Damascus blade with a VG-10 center. Skip the sandwich and give me a super steel blade for $200.00. VG-10 has a miniscule amount of Vanadium (0.20%), which forms very hard carbides (82HRC). It is also not a powder steel, so the grain size is larger and the purity is lower.
 
tiguy7 said:
I use a Corian cutting board (MMA Acrylic plastic). It is very uniform, sanitary, and most importantly doesn't contain Silicates like many wooden boards. One of my favorite kitchen knives is a Stellite 6-K paring knife with a 4" X .027" thick full tang blade. It was made by George (Mr. Stellite) Young. I touch up the micro edge by steeling the knife on a Zirconium Carbide ceramic blade.
My beef about the expensive VG-10 kitchen knives is that you're paying $200.00 for a San Mai Damascus blade with a VG-10 center. Skip the sandwich and give me a super steel blade for $200.00. VG-10 has a miniscule amount of Vanadium (0.20%), which forms very hard carbides (82HRC). It is also not a powder steel, so the grain size is larger and the purity is lower.
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I'll agree with over paying for "damascus" VG-10 blades. It kinda blows my mind how many brands there are out there of pretty much the exact same knife.
 
Cynic2701 said:
VG-10 is a good, well rounded steel--which is one of the reasons why Spyderco uses it so much. I've used a fair number of VG-10 Japanese kitchen knives (e.g. Shun, Al Mar, Tojiro, Zhen, Kagayaki) and while yes, they really are quite a step up from the run of the mill Henckels or Wusthof, they are still not quite to the level of a Konosuke, Heiji, Masakage, etc.

A while ago I wouldn't have believed that they really could be much better--but it wasn't until I actually started using them that I could see and feel the difference. Try stringing out scallions after making 15 pounds of mirepoix and then doing a katsuramuki cut without touching your edge up. It will be very sharp - still probably shaving sharp - afterwards, but it won't have retained as much of that "fresh off the stone" edge that something like Aogami Super/Blue #1 or White #1/#2 would.

Yes, high carbide steels will hold an edge longer, but, as you mention, it is a working edge. The really delicate cuts for vegetables in a lot of Japanese and French cooking are much easier to do with that "fresh off the stone" edge; the longer your knife can keep that edge, the better.

Obviously I'm not cutting cardboard, bones, or anything hard with my knife. It's taken to a very very low angle and it's only used against an end grain cutting board.
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True, but I still think VG-10 is okay for a budget knife(depending on where that budget is). Obviously ZDP-189 would be more desired for the same price range.

I've never tried Aogami Super, but my limited experience with White steel in a Tojiro Chef's knife was okay aside from the fact that:
1) I live in Hawaii, so we've got humidity up the buttcheeks.
2) White is more vulnerable to corrosion than the 1095/CPM-M4/1060 that I'm used to.
3) I mostly cut fruits with my kitchen knives, and the blade emits one hell of a metallic smell(and taste I swear) when cutting fruit.

So I'm mostly stuck with stainless for the most part, and I occasionally spot a little rust stain on my ZDP-189 blade, nothing obvious, but it bugs me.

Considering what's widely used as far as stainless goes, I'd say VG-10 is a fine choice given the slim pickings of AEB-L knives. I know Richmond has some at a good price, but I doubt you can go wrong with VG-10 at the $50 and under range.

As far as high carbide steels, obviously S90V and similar steels would never be particularly great in a kitchen knife, but that 3rd generation PM is a game-changer IMO. I had a particular obsession about razor edges, even for a cardboard cutter. So as you can imagine, I was touching up my knives pretty much twice a week minimum:D. I noted that M390 held a razor edge considerably longer than other blade steels, and other users report the same with Elmax. It's said that the PM process further improves carbide distribution, which improves grindability, toughness, ease of sharpening, and evidently how evenly the steel wears down.

I'm not sure how well it compares to Aogami Super and high dollar White steel, but I can say with certainty that M390 is like AEB-L with a ton more wear resistance. Would certainly be eagerly awaiting 4th Gen PM Steel if it ever happens in my lifetime:D:thumbup:.
 
I am not a great cook or a "chef" - but I have kitchen knives in VG10 (Tojiro, Spyderco), 440C (Gerber), M2 (Gerber), XHP (Northwoods petty), SV35 (Warther slicer), and carbon steel (4 Elephants Sabatier, Case), and some nameless stainless steels (Victorinox, Flynt, Sabatier). I think that the Sabatier stainless is trash. Note that the Sabatiers are old knives, perhaps 40 years or more).

In kitchen use, I haven't seen a substantial difference in edge retention between VG10 and the XHP blade. I believe Lamson made the knife for Northwoods. The 440C seems to hold an edge about like my carbon Sabatiers. Of course the M2 does better than the stainless knives, but the blade is thin. I found that I need to sharpen the blades made from softer stainless so often that I avoid using them. I am referring to the steels below VG10 in carbon content, e.g., 12C27 Tim Britton steak knife utility or the Victorinox 6" utility.

I haven't used the knife in S35V enough to make a judgment yet, but While I like the knife in XHP, I wasn't blown away by edge holding. I actually get better results from a Spyderco Yang 6" utility. It is difficult to make good comparisons, since I tend to use these knives for cutting different foods. The 135mm Northwoods petty cuts up veggies, but also removes chicken from bones. This is harder on an edge than just cutting up tomatoes.
 
XHP should have considerable edge holding if the mode of failure is due to wear(say, from cardboard or rope cutting) and plastic deformation(i.e. steel is too soft). I believe contact with bone is more likely to chip a hard edge and you'd probably want softer carbon steel for that.
 
Hey Cynic, I've been looking at getting a Hiromoto, but was hesitant getting a clad knife. Do you find the clad knives are more prone to bending than others?
My experience is limited to a couple of Shun VG10 core- Damascus clad blades that seemed a bit soft in the cladding. Didn't know if that was the norm or not, and I'm pretty easygoing on my kitchen knives. Thank's for any info, and sorry to the op for any off topic questions.
 
sam adams said:
Hey Cynic, I've been looking at getting a Hiromoto, but was hesitant getting a clad knife. Do you find the clad knives are more prone to bending than others?
My experience is limited to a couple of Shun VG10 core- Damascus clad blades that seemed a bit soft in the cladding. Didn't know if that was the norm or not, and I'm pretty easygoing on my kitchen knives. Thank's for any info, and sorry to the op for any off topic questions.
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I've never had issues with bending (even with Shun) so I'm not sure I can comment much. The cladding will definitely be softer than the core blade steel - one of the defining characteristics of cladding - but some people have pointed out that Fallkniven's cladding seems to improve toughness.

With how thin Japanese knives are, I would really recommend against doing much side to side movement with the knife. Some people get nervous even cutting thing like butternut squash or other hard vegetables with laser gyutos, but I've not had issues.

If you do end up with a bent blade as the result of doing something I'd say you probably shouldn't have done it in the first place with a Japanese knife. There are times when a thick soft German knife can be a better choice than a very hard and thin Japanese knife. There are lots of techniques, though, for getting around issues like this. Watermelons can be cracked, squashes can be cut at a different angle (i.e. if cutting in half, once should cut stem to bottom, rather than side to side), etc.
 
The VG-10 sandwich can be bent when meeting hard material ! I learned that when I without knowing hit the center of a head of rather dried garlic ! Harder stuff I get out my Henckels.In any knife harder materials should only be cut with the heel of the blade.
Corian and the competitors have the polymer but they are all using the same aluminum compound for a filler .I don't know how abrasive it is. I'm an old guy so I still use a wooden board !
Judging from my folders and hunting knives , if I cooked as much as i used to, I'd get cooking knives of S35VN at 60 HRc !!
 
Thanks for the reply guys.
Funny you should mention garlic, mete, I think that's how I buggered up my blade using the flat and crushing garlic cloves. Did'nt really notice it until I was sharpening and felt the one side of the edge hitting the stone unevenly, like it was a little warped, which it wasn't when new.
 
sam adams said:
Hey Cynic, I've been looking at getting a Hiromoto, but was hesitant getting a clad knife. Do you find the clad knives are more prone to bending than others?
My experience is limited to a couple of Shun VG10 core- Damascus clad blades that seemed a bit soft in the cladding. Didn't know if that was the norm or not, and I'm pretty easygoing on my kitchen knives. Thank's for any info, and sorry to the op for any off topic questions.
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The clad steel of the Hiromoto AS is indeed very soft, but very, very stiff. Good luck with bending it, even with garlic!
 
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