hest folder warranty question

[Dizwolf]

I can understand being nervous and wanting to know details before dropping this kind of coin on a blade. But from those of us who have been customers ofthe company will tell you, whatever the warranty is, they take care of thier customers. Folders and machetes are a diffrent type of product. They're not made to last forever, and they will ALL wear out one day. So the warranty has to be diffrent. This doesn't mean they're backing off product support. Whatever the warranty is, I won't read it. I know as long as I don't abuse the tool, they're going to make sure I'm happy. I don't worry about the customer service, it's been the best I've seen anywhere. That's all I need to know.

 

[Tomso]

Im ragging ESEE. Really. I'm here asking questions. That is what this forum is about. And if you don't agree with something then speak up. If it seems like ragging sorry....

I hate when people on forums attack one person that has different opinion than what is generally accepted there and I avoid that kind of things and I am sorry if my response will look like that as it is not meant to be an attack but just a response. But seriously nobody is forcing you to buy this knife, let alone ESEE. If you don't like design, steel or warranty, don't buy it then. Nobody will take that against you. There are many other folder out there, you'll find what you are looking for.

 

[KEmSAT-Survival]

DP>>
Because you're missing a small detail: RAT, DPx, and ESSE are still businesses. They still have to turn a profit of some kind and not take crazy risks, especially right now.
Offering a 100% coverage, no questions asked warranty on a folder is begging for a capital hemorrhage.
Jeff and Mike have to eat too, man.

Simply put: if you don't like the warranty when it comes out, avoid buying the product -- and I don't mean that as an insult or anything. That's how the system works. There's really no fine print to it. They cover everything but normal wear and tear. That's a pretty big chunk of stuff covered. They aren't saying you can't send it back to have it repaired when something like a spacer or locking mech. gets worn. But it'd be hard to eat that cost on every knife; especially when, at some point, every knife will wear out.

Jeff and Mike work their hearts out to keep us ESEE/RAT junkies happy. But they also have to keep their business afloat. They can't give away the house (and this forum gives away everything but that, from what I can tell!) man. Be reasonable.

 

[solocanoe]

its friday and almost 4pm where I'm at...I need a beer..and a shot!

oh man...buy it or don't. if ya don't pre order, it ain't gonna matter anyway...they will be gone.

 

[UDT-SEAL]

well...its a FOLDER.

The only reason I'm signed up to buy it is RYP and ESEE - if they say it's tough enough for them..I'll give it a shot - if I hate it...I bet I can sell it quick and buy more FB's

I'll use it some...but I'd never bet my life on it....or take only a folder into the woods...or a BOB.... or a confict...

There is NO folder - ever designed or ever will be - that can be as tough as a fixed blade...there are trade offs in anything. A NAA Guardian or Keltec LCP slips in your pocket...but it's not what most people would take if they knew their life depended on the caliber or functioning in a harsh enviroment.

...murphys law...moving parts...it's apples and oranges (to me)

what the HEST folder DOES do, is give some folks that have to live in places with horrible knife laws a chance to carry an ESEE knife...and have a hard use option that's maybe better than they have access to now... for those folks, I see why they are SUPER excited.

The only reason I'm signed up to buy it is RYP and ESEE - if they say it's

AS Far as I have been told none can sign up till aug1st

 

[DH1]

I don't feel I've been slighted by ESEE, RYP, Lion Steel or anyone else in regards to their philosophy as it applies to this warranty. I think the warranty is great, and I'm sure if there was an actual failure in regular use the warranty will be upheld without a runaround about registration, receipts, invoices of when you purchased it, etc...I intend to use the folder for regular use so I have no problems with it.

Having the HEST folder start coming back in peices for "warranty repair" by people who took them apart and coulden't get them back together again will be a real pain.

 

[jcmahler]

I can't wait to get mine, I love every product I own from ESEE including my dpx hest. The warranty as stated thus far for the hest folder is on par with folders I own that are in a far higher price range. Thanks for giving us this product guys!

 

[mat_890]

In all seriousness the wear and tear not being covered is understandable. Folders will show wear with use around the lock regardless of how the knife is made. Not replacing parts because a moron took it apart and broke it is also quite understandable.

I trust my life to Esee knives every time I take it into the deep woods. That is more then I can say for damn near any other manufacturer. However expansion and change scares people, myself included, so I can see where others are coming from. Just try to look it it from others perspectives. :thumbup:

 

[MikeyJ]

I will still purchase, carry and use the new h.e.s.t. folder when it becomes available. Regardless of any changes in warranty!

 

[RevDevil]

I will still purchase, carry and use the new h.e.s.t. folder when it becomes available. Regardless of any changes in warranty!

Same here. Not sure why the huge skiddish feelings and uneasieness. I'l sure this thing will turn out awesome. I've bought some expensive folders and they turned out disappointing. This one however, looks awesome. Warranty changes are fair. That leads to my next question:

Can we buy spare parts if we end up busting something? I would not expect free clips and whatever, but it would be cool if we had the option.

 

[RYP]

I think you have to wonder why someone wants a warranty for a product they don't want anymore. )

If you buy a DPx H•E•S•T fixed or folder you are a customer for life because the product is designed for long life. That means that ESEE wants your knife to be in top condition and any and all defects are covered as long as you own the knife.

I don't think you will find anyone who is unhappy with the ESEE warranty.

Secondly on the DPx H•E•S•T Folder. ESEE is going to invest even more time in making sure you like this knife, that it stays in top condition and that we build customer loyalty. If you want to sell your knife you can't sell the relationship between us and you

Now lets all agree, that a folder is different. It has moving parts, it requires care and maintenance, tune up, maintenance etc. You can actually break them if you try hard enough. Most companies won't even touch a lifetime warranty on a folder because well they can break, moving warranty costs up to the realm of full replacement. With the DPx H•E•S•T Folder we are all confident that this knife will last you a lifetime and it is warrantied as such.

So Jeff, Mike and I looked at the warranty claims, why people sent in their knives and its clear that dumb ass "hey bubba watch this" kinda abuse was pretty much the number one reason for warranty. But still we back this because we back our customer as much as we back our product.

With the DPx H•E•S•T fixed and folder we want to make the product better by seeing exactly if and why they may fail or not meet the expectations of the owner. So we like to see how you use your knife and how it fits your expectations. That's a two part concept. First, building a relationship with the owner and secondly learning from them how they use their knife. If some wants to take a welding torch, jack hammer or diamond saw and cut their knife in half...it gets replaced but we also know the "unusual relationship that the owner has with our product" so we are less inclined to let him buy another product. There are only so many DPx H•E•S•T Folders to go around.

If the owner wants to sell his DPx H•E•S•T Folder then that's a pretty good indication that he/she doesn't want or need that knife. He then creates the sales contract between himself and the new owner, not ESEE. ESEE is happy to welcome the new owner into the family but the warranty is for the unique relationship between the owner, the manufacturer and the product.

So if you are a member of the ESEE or DPx family, you can rely on your knife being sharp, tuned and in peak performance for as long as you are the owner of the knife and as long as the knife is registered in your name. That's pretty comforting.

Jeff, Mike and I will discuss the pros and cons on providing family service to second owners but we don't see why anyone would not keep the knife for a lifetime. As this forum shows the relationship between knife company and customer is the soul of ESEE's business and success.

There are plenty of reasons why a warranty could be extended to the second, third etc owner and there has never been a complaint so far. We expect to continue that unbroken record.

 

[solocanoe]

..and THAT should just about sum it up!
Most excellent post, RYP! can't wait for mine!

(pretty long and articulate post for late friday nite...you out of beer where you are, brother? )

 

[R.A.T.]

I would like to know why the change in philosophy in the hest folder warranty. ESEE's stance is we warranty the knife no matter how many times it's been sold traded or given away, not the original owner. But with the hest ESEE is now offering warranty to registered owners. Why the change. Is this a change in philosophy with ESEE. I can't see a reason to change the warranty with the hest folder other than to limit warranty returns because after it has been sold or traded there is no warranty. ESEE's warranty to me is what sets them apart from the rest of the other companies and ESEE is very proud of that and state it on their site. But if you can't offer the same warranty with the hest then why do it. Because it's not keeping with the original motto of we stand behind our knife and not who owned it first!

This was your initial gripe. I responded that we plan on having a warranty for transferring the knife but you're still not happy? Man, I don't get it. How many other ESEE products do you own and how many times have you had to use our warranty?

 

[draftpick]

I own 2 ESEE knives. An izula and an RC-6. Have not had to warranty any yet. But I have only had them for 1 year. But I have not used my Izula as much as I thought I would and may be trading or selling it in the future. That is why I would like to know if the warranty follows the knife because new models come out or you life changes you move or you lose your job etc, and have to part ways with guns and knives. Yeah I would love to keep all my knives and guns but things happen and I have had to sell stuff in the past and Im sure we all have from time to time. That is why I think it's important to keep the philosophy to warranty the knife not the original owner as you have in the past. I get what RYP is saying. But life is not that simple s we all know with the economy in the current state. That is part of the reason I bring these questions up.

 

[R.A.T.]

One other thing I would like to add to this whole thing. I realize that many in the "knife" industry may not know RYP but he cares about his customers as much as ESEE cares about theirs. That's the reason the DPx / ESEE "marriage" works. RYP is probably the best there is when it comes to understanding, working and traveling in remote and dangerous places, so his experience, to us, is a major plus when designing gear that actually works. Not to be egotistical, but how many other companies are building and designing gear based on hard experience, then supporting the end user the way we do?

We're just getting started with these collaborative projects.While DPx Gear is a separate line from ESEE, and owned by RYP, the philosophy of supporting the customer is still the same so there are a lot of good things to come. There will be limits on the stated warranty simply because it's a folder, but I can guarantee you we will take care of the end user regardless. There will also be limits on the warranty when the ESEE Izula folder comes out (made by Rowen manufacturing). The simple solution if someone doesn't like the warranty on a particular product is to not buy that product. We're not trying to convicne anyone that we're the best at anything. If you don't like our philosophy, product, warranty, whatever.... then buy somewhere else. Simple.

 

[R.A.T.]

I own 2 ESEE knives. An izula and an RC-6. Have not had to warranty any yet. But I have only had them for 1 year. But I have not used my Izula as much as I thought I would and may be trading or selling it in the future. That is why I would like to know if the warranty follows the knife because new models come out or you life changes you move or you lose your job etc, and have to part ways with guns and knives. Yeah I would love to keep all my knives and guns but things happen and I have had to sell stuff in the past and Im sure we all have from time to time. That is why I think it's important to keep the philosophy to warranty the knife not the original owner as you have in the past. I get what RYP is saying. But life is not that simple s we all know with the economy in the current state. That is part of the reason I bring these questions up.

Dude, how many times do I have to answer your original post? I have already answered that the warranty will indeed be transferrabble. What do you want me to do, send you a personalized, signed letter stating it? If my words in this thread don't please you then all I can suggest is you buy someone else's folding knife.

 

[Dizwolf]

So Jeff, Mike and I looked at the warranty claims, why people sent in their knives and its clear that dumb ass "hey bubba watch this" kinda abuse was pretty much the number one reason for warranty. But still we back this because we back our customer as much as we back our product.

Oh man... I would love love love to see a word for word "hey bubba watch this" exemption clause in the final warranty

Also something I'd point out, the warranty changed slightly on the Lite machete. This entire forum of barely trained monkeys has been beating the CRAP out of them all summer long. I've yet to hear any complaints other than needing to spend 45 seconds polishing out the edges. Hell, even my girlfriend hasn't been able to screw hers up.... I really wouldn't worry man.

 

[RYP]

I was responding to his comment about "the Philosophy" of the warranty.

The purpose of a warranty is to show a commitment to the customer that the advertised and delivered quality and performance of a product to the buyer are the same within the expected designed use of that product. Every manufacturer has charts and tables that show exactly when they are designed to fail. Its not a co-oincidence that many products go to hell shortly after the warranty expires. So thats the LOGIC of a warranty.

Within that LOGIC, if the buyer wants to then resell that product the original manufacturer can't support whatever that buyer has said. That's a statement of fact and logic.

The PHILOSOPHY of a warranty is very different. A warranty can be a clear indication of how much the manufacturer wants a relationship with its customers.

The PHILOSOPHY of the ESEE/DPx warranty has never changed. You are a member of a family and are treated as such. If all ESEE wanted was your money and a quick reach around we would offer a 90 day warranty with a two page list of small print weasel words. ESEE wants a relationship, not just a sale. That ultimately is how you build on success.

What I should have added is that despite the inherent conflict in the logic (make a lot of money) and the philosophy (treat people like you would want to be treated) , Jeff and Mike are STILL willing to stand behind their product EVEN WHEN YOU SELL IT. I apologize for not making that clear in my original post.

The point I am making (cuz as Jeff sez, some folks don't reed two weel) is the products we design and make are USED by us. In other words, we are customers as much as you are and we damn well expect a company to be there for us if we have a question or a problem.

So "we" are "you"...if you know what I mean. And the ESEE warranty reflects that. Now if people can't figure that out...they shouldn't be walking around with sharp objects )))

 

[Birdkiller]

This tread was getting a little old. But man now the RAT and RYP posted here I'm remembering the original reason I was interested in this company. My ESEE knives will be the last that I sell.

 

[R.A.T.]

Thanks Robert, you explained that very well and it's EXACTLY they way we operate.

As for the Lite Machete, we have had three users email us about chips in the blade. EVEN THOUGH our warranty states we will not guarantee against chips in the blade (it's a freakin' machete made in El Salvador!) we have replaced all three blades without question.

As Robert stated, we are users too. We want companies to stand behind what we use and trust our life to. Although we are hard on gear we don't abuse something (or the warranty) simply because it can be abused then expect the company to stand behind our idiocy. An example of that (and Robert has seen this from me numerous times) is I have a 2500 dollar Canon 5D MKII body with a lot of high dollar L lenses. I abuse the shit out of that gear because it's made for hard use (but not unwarranted abuse). It gets wet, muddy, full of desert sand and whatever it may take to be ready to take a shot. If I drop it in a creek and it goes tits up, I don't expect Canon to replace it. It's my dime because I pushed it beyond what it should have been pushed and didn't take care of it. It's not that I have a lot of $$ to spend on replacement camera gear, but I do try to buy good gear because part of my living comes from taking photos, but it is MY responsibility if pushing something to the extreme (abuse) causes it to fail.

The HEST folder is going to be top-notch and made for hard use, but it has moving parts and the lock will wear over time, blade will get dull, engraving will wear off, etc, the same as a 5000 dollar SLR body's shutter will wear and lag after a lot of hard use. Bottom line: we will never be able to warranty against wear and tear because friction finally wears and tears anything with moving parts. Fixed blades are a different beast simply becasue there are no moving parts, but we don't even warranty those against the coating wearing, handles getting chipped or dented, etc. So I guess the simplest way to put this is the warranty will be what it is (and spelled out). If someone doesn't like the warranty then they can simply spend their dollars elsewhere.