HI Kunai can be yours!

[Baishan]

I'm not even sure what it is but I want one.

 

[ndoghouse]

Sounds like an interesting technique. I'd like to see a video from you after you get your Kunai.

In any case, a trailing rope would surely tend to keep the point forward.

Ive seen some tie a little flag on the end to try to help keep it stable. This gal knows way more than I.

 

[Neptune's Champion]

whoa thats weird. my count is 11! Having Deja Vu. Have we recently chatted about the throwing dart kunai? very good video. it also works fine with throwing it and having the other hand hold the rope. I guess theres more momentum in swinging it. sure would hurt to get slapped by a swinging gravity hammer / HI Kunai!

It took about three months to get the first one, maybe the rest will happen quicker. I haven't spoke to Auntie in a while, but I will contact her soon to see whats up with these.

 

[ndoghouse]

Usually takes a while to get the first one. If it turned out like you want then you may very well be on the road to a great new HI product. If it aint like you want then then there is a communication factor with the Kamis that takes a bit of manipulation with all in between that takes a bit of patience and respect. Once the Kamis start making them it is very hard to communicate a change (AKA. language barriers and all). Thats why it is so important to get your description and or model correct with Aunti Y the first time. Sounds like you did an excellent job first pass. Well done and congrats on your effort Neptune! I have a YSC that was made just after a wooden model was sent to HI for production and during shipping the wooden model tip broke off so the Kamis made it just like the model. Tip broken off and all. I guess the Kamis never found the tip? Some time later they found out that it was supposed to be sharp so they eventually corrected it. Just another fine piece of HI history! Ya gotta love it!

 

[Neptune's Champion]

As it turns out, HI will not be making any more kunai. There was a great design flaw by kamis in which they did not make the knife from one solid piece of metal, instead, the smiths made it from two pieces; the handle and blade were made separate. This made it prone to breaking. After a few throws into a telephone pole, the kunai busted in two! revealing the inside. It appears the handle was made from an average steel dowel found in most hardware stores with a chrome coating. as for the blade, i am not certain. I personally would have never made a blade this way, which caused it to break. Auntie insists the smiths will not make kunai, and they will continue working on kooks.

It is a shame this happened. I will have to make them myself, as i originally intended, out of one piece of metal. regardless of this, it makes me concerned for the other knives of HI. They all seem to be solid knives, same with the kunai. the kunai looked and felt like a solid piece of metal, but in reality it was made of two and not whole.

I am concerned for the safety of individuals using HI kukris. I have a couple myself, and as they are much heavier than the originals, it might have a devastating blow if a blade were to fly off the handle. Does anyone know if all HI knives are made from two pieces of metal? I have read they are full tang, but after seeing the inside of this knife, it makes me a bit nervous. I have many HI kukris, but they might be forged in the same way as the kunai.

the company will not fix the design of the kunai, and they refuse to make it better in order to make more.

 

[cul4u01]

Was it requested to make it out of one piece, and the intended use relayed to auntie?

Because it isn't a blade usually made by the Kamis, very specific instructions must be conveyed and understood.

As far as I know, there has been nil to none catastrophic failures you are talking about with any knives in the HI normal lineup.

 

[Tim the Wizard]

I think part of the context of the Kunai failure is the drastically different shape of the handle and the blade. To make that handle would require an anvil and some pretty hot steel...

The khukuris are the opposite... In that it would probably be more trouble to join two pieces of metal than to simply shape the truck steel like they do...

But I think this is a problem that should be addressed directly by Yangdu or another rep. here.

If there is any chance of a khuk failure like this or, as it is now, the perception that it may be the case, then let's have it resolved.

 

[Bawanna]

I can assure you the kukri's blades will never fly off the handle. Either the Chiruwa full tang or the rat tail.

I have had handles off both and they are plenty skookum.

I agree with Ndog, the kunai is not a normal kami thing. I suspect using this as a learning experience they could approach it differently and have far better results.

I'm a little disappointed in the design failure cause I kind of wanted one, but I'm not the least bit disappointed in the kami's.

 

[davidf99]

As it turns out, HI will not be making any more kunai. There was a great design flaw by kamis in which they did not make the knife from one solid piece of metal, instead, the smiths made it from two pieces; the handle and blade were made separate. This made it prone to breaking.... Auntie insists the smiths will not make kunai, and they will continue working on kooks.... The company will not fix the design of the kunai, and they refuse to make it better in order to make more.

It's clear from your report and looking at the pictures that this project was way outside the comfort zone of the kamis. They probably should have said no to the original request instead of making it in two pieces. It sounds like you were urging them to "fix the design" or "make it better in order to make more." However, I think it's best that they cut their losses rather than put a lot of time into a one-piece design. For the prices that they charge, it just isn't worth it.

When you speak of "the company," it sort of suggests that you're thinking in terms of a large corporation, like asking General Motors to manufacture a new model car (which also would meet with resistance despite their vast wealth). Really, we're talking about Yangdu in the U.S., Pala managing the Nepal shop, and in this case, Kumar kami. Three people, all of whom are generally up to their necks in the business of making and selling khukuris. You tried, they tried, but given the result it just isn't worth pursuing.

I wouldn't worry at all about the regular designs in the HI lineup. They are all one piece designs and very solid, often overbuilt even by khukuri standards. Like Bawanna, I've seen some, both in person and in pictures, with the handles off. Some of the shop photos that are occasionally posted by Yangdu show dozens of "blades in progress" hanging on the wall with no handles, and they are all one piece construction. Here are two pictures of a large WWII model made by Sher kami that I bought from another forumite that never had a handle put on. Blade length is 12.5" and the overall length, from the tip to the end of the tang, is 19". As you can see, the tang is massive, and it is even rounded off where the tang meets the blade.

 

[DaFatKid]

Sorry I'm late to the ball. If they make one piece kunais I would be in for at least two. Such is my respect for Auntie and HI!

 

[ndoghouse]

First off. I agree with all the folks above and before addressing the masses id recommend addressing the shop owner first and get things resolved before presenting a possibly freak one off defect on a one off custom. Yep if Mrs. Martino didnt make it reasonably good then I would come post to the masses and complain like any reasonable person would but my experience with this company tells me this is highly unlikely. I have 100% confidence Aunti Yangdu would make it good to you at all cost. All due respect they did try and present you with a weapon not conventional to their traditional lineup. Its HI's call whether or not they feel confident enough to do it or not. There are several items in their lineup now that came from a unique design just like yours and personally im glad folks like you are willing to give them a chance to get a new product in the lineup. If you do some research on the Katana for example you will see that there was much work done to get the tempering right before they decided that this potentially new product would end up in their lineup. They had the blade professionally tested and they did very well in my opinion. Im sure they could do a Kunai without this ever occurring again given another chance. I do commend you sir for having the trust in HI to do something completely different but please understand the situation I'm describing. With a proper weld I don't see any problem with a two piece part. They dont stick weld parts because they are in Nepal and have limited resources. They have to braze or solder sometimes to assemble bolsters etc but this was a unique piece im sure. Looks to me the hole needed to be drilled a bit deeper and or maybe peened and it would have never been a problem. One never knows till it dont work. Its likely they never knew it was a throwing knife. Live and learn! Forgive and forget!

 

[TheQuest]

Its likely they never knew it was a throwing knife. Live and learn! Forgive and forget!

Was it requested to make it out of one piece, and the intended use relayed to auntie?

As far as I know, there has been nil to none catastrophic failures you are talking about with any knives in the HI normal lineup.

I am concerned for the safety of individuals using HI kukris. I have a couple myself, and as they are much heavier than the originals, it might have a devastating blow if a blade were to fly off the handle. Does anyone know if all HI knives are made from two pieces of metal? I have read they are full tang, but after seeing the inside of this knife, it makes me a bit nervous. I have many HI kukris, but they might be forged in the same way as the kunai.

the company will not fix the design of the kunai, and they refuse to make it better in order to make more.

*******

Ndog - I think you hit the nail on the head. I know my first thoughts were "Oooo, shiney! Stabby!" and "Now THAT'S a fidget spinner!" We're blessed with the leisure to look up other culture's weapons and tools, and all too often treat them (unconsciously, mind you) as toys and a source of entertainment. Which is, admit it, what every single one of us did. Obviously Neptune had given construction some thought, and most of us are familiar with throwing knives. But I think we get tripped up by the high quality of H.I.'s products that we forget that they're doing 98% of production by hand, and not cutting out steel blanks with waterjets and powertools. We have to remember these guys don't have the time or ability to hop on youtube and do in-depth research. They get what we give Auntie, and she has to manage the translation.

Think about it from Kumar's point of view. These guys *know* how to turn out a working tool, then they double it up because us goofy westerners run around hitting fire-hardened oak trees with them. Now, another one of them has sent *yet another* whimsical design that we have to figure out some way to create. What is this thing? Well, it's pointy, so it's a stabby thing, but it's what he wants. And he's only going to have one of them, so what kind of guy throws his only (whatever this thing is) around in the forest? Maybe it's decorative/symbolic?

****
Cul- The only thing that comes to mind is that Museum Model with the metal handle. Had to look up a refresher, but it looks like when they were brazing the handle it messed with the tang HT causing catastrophic failures. Knicked one guy pretty good, then they recalled the rest of them. Other than that, it's hard finding instances of failures. Couple of posts of "I had an X break on me once."


****
Neptune - Aspersions = bad. There was no conspiracy or chicanery involved. Give Auntie a chance to work things out.

 

[Neptune's Champion]

I do not believe I am throwing aspirations around. The reason I posted this is to see what you all thought. Auntie has given me, and others, numerous gifts, discounts, and has been overall very helpful in many aspects including payment plans & more.

I base my concern from the fact, as we can all see from the pictures, that it looks and feels like one piece, just the same as the kuhkris. I happen to have a YCS that was discounted to me for a birthday present, and i have been feeling very grateful for it as it sits beside my head every night on my bed. Its the closest thing i have to a sword so far, and never have i ever thought that there is a slightest chance of it breaking. it looks, and feels like a full tang hard to the core knife. that being said, i am not certain this is so true anymore. It could easily be two pieces mended together.

Don't get me wrong, my desire to buy more kukris and knives from HI is very high. However, as stated from everyone. This is a disappointing matter. which, to me, opens up questions about the manufacturing of the knives in the company of HI.

I have, sense the time of this post, asked auntie to make one improvement on the kunai. which is to make it from one piece of metal. she said no, i asked and asked, until one day she said "will do" in an email. some time went past (nearly a month) i emailed her just the other day and she says the kamis will not make kunai as it is out of their experience. It is baffling to me, mainly because the design is so simple. I believe it would be much easier to make than a kukri. I have no intention of getting rid of my kunai because the wooden copy i sent in was a foundation to ones i intend on making. therefore, i will use this HI model to do the same thing. I will eventually make smaller ones from wood too, for the same purpose.

all in all, theres a lot to read into here. This came as a huge surprise to me. I wish to continue to keep buying from the company, but i am rather suspicious now. I remember back in 2009 i was a lonely high school student who desired to get a kukri from HI. a big one, a 40 inch sirupati. I was quickly shut down from the price and wanted the small letter opener, which i have still yet to get. Now of days, I own a couple Kukris and have come into possession of a vala spear, EMW special; i hope to grow my collection (if i ever have money again). I was merely suspended on the Kunai dilemma, that i thought could be fixed, but was told otherwise from auntie no matter how i asked.

I have not had the chance to use my YCS in some time. when i did, it worked flawlessly, but so did the kunai. it is odd to think that, in the right moment, it might snap in two

 

[Neptune's Champion]

those are grate pictures david. it really looks stable in that lighting

 

[cul4u01]

I've never heard of a HI khukuri from their normal lineup "breaking in two", i doubt that's even possible. The kamis have been making khukuris for generations, and they know what they are doing.

I do not believe it is fair to apply what they did to make a one off Kunai, which they probably didn't even know it was to be made from one piece of steel, much less thrown; otherwise, they probably would've said, "NO", in the first place, because something you throw, I doubt they would call a "working tool", which basically to them, is what a khukuri will be used as.

Bookie has thrown his khukuri, and none have broke, fractured, or had any type of "failure". A lot of us have used our khukuris for all kinds of chopping, both light and heavy tasks, and I still have not heard of a khukuri breaking in two. Handles chipping, or even breaking off, due to use, sure, but that's to be expected. Axe handles must be changed after some time, including hammer handles, and other tools with wooden handles, why would a natural product khukuri handle be any different?

 

[ndoghouse]

FYI: Two pieces of steel can be forge welded together with the strength of one piece if done correctly. Its been done for many many generations and still done today. Id be willing to bet the Kamis could do it if they wanted to. If i was born to clean toilets all my life id know to clean under the rim. I just think there was a bit of miscommunication there as to its use. I have no doubt at all they could do it.
I hear your concern tho. I bought a JA Henkels professional series chef knife with the solid bolster and I rehandled it with wood. Well that was the plan. While cleaning it and sanding the tang it broke off at the tang. WTH? I couldnt believe they would weld the tang onto the blade. You could see the filet at the bolster was the only thing holding the blade on on each side. The middle of the tang was not even welded. That was no accident on a mass produced knife. It was by design. That was the process. For that reason I have concern buying their products. I do know that they dont undergo the brutal conditions of a Khukri so it likely would have never broke if I hadnt sanded halfway through the fillet but I wont spend that much money on their product again knowing that. So I do understand your concern. I do know the process Khukris are made and am 100% confident in buying them even though you got a bum deal on a Kunai. My guess is Aunti just doesnt have the time to develop another product at this time. Maybe theres another reason?

 

[davidf99]

NC:

I suggest that you let this go.

People have responded to your concern respectfully and on the basis of extensive experience with HI blades. However, you seem to be asking the impossible. What reassurances can anyone on this forum give you that an HI blade won't snap in two the next time you use it? What guarantee can your doctor give that you won't have a heart attack from the exertion?

If you don't trust your YCS for chopping, you can buy an axe and hope that the head doesn't fly off the handle.

Your most recent posting suggests that you are annoyed that Yangdu didn't accommodate your repeated requests for modifying the kunai. She has no such obligation, and after a while even the nicest person has to start saying no.

If you want to continue buying HI blades, but are worried about possible two-piece construction, there are two things you can do.

(1) Take your YCS to a medical facility and have them x-ray the knife. One forumite did that a while back, and posted the pictures here.

(2) Buy one of the less expensive HI blades (a KLVUK would be best), remove the handle (which might be harder than you think), and see for yourself if the knife is one piece or two.

The second option might be cheaper than the cost of an x-ray. You would then have to rehandle the knife, but that might be worth it to achieve the certainty that you are seeking.

 

[davidf99]

NC:

I hope I didn't sound too critical in my last post. Here are a couple of pictures that show two HI kamis (Rajkumar and Tirtha) at work. On the wall behind them are a number of unfinished HI blades that have not yet had handles put on. As you can see, they are all unitary construction. No two-piece knives. The pictures also provide some insight into the kamis' working conditions.