Horse Hide for sheaths?

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MyDogsHunt

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Just getting started making my own sheaths and while shopping around the net for some hand tools I ran across some horse hide (butts). Says that they're good for sheaths and holsters.
The price is about 30% that of cow hide so I'm wondering if it might be good for learning or do you think it would just make the learning curve even harder?

As usual, TIA.
Charlie
 
Horse hide is excellent for sheaths and holsters...some will argue that it's superior to cow....but it is different to work with than cow.As someone just starting out, I would recommend that you get some cow hide experience first.
Horse is a bit harder to wet mold,to stamp......just my view on it.
The good news is for the cost/size of them butts, you can get 4-6 sheaths out of them...that makes it an excellent value.
 
Thanks rayban,,,,,,, I have some cow hide coming from Jantz, but that price really got my attention.
The vendor says the butts average 36"X14". I figure that it's gotta at the very least be worth the 12.00 they're asking so I went ahead and ordered one piece.
I'll start with the cow, but when I do try my hand with the horse butt, do you have any tips for dealing with the potential difficulties in wet molding. I'm not worried about stamping yet. That's a long way down the road for me right now. (Baby steps ya know.)
Any advice will be appreciated, but be warned, I'll be back with allot more questions once my stuff all gets here.

Thanks
Charlie
 
I believe the biggest difference you'll see right off is that horse doesn't absorb water as readily as cow does, so that just means it takes a little longer ....then when you do get it to the molding part.....don't dilly dally, because again, horse won't give you the latitude time wise that cow will.
I would suggest make a small sheath for yourself, using both materials......only way to totally comprehend what I'm trying to say...you need to "feel" the difference.
Nothing to be afraid of....just different.
I'm sure you'll get much more input from others.....maybe after the bars close.......
 
Well, there's Horse butt and then there's Horse butt. First you need to be buying "soft rolled", not "hard rolled" as there is a hell of a difference. Availability of 7/8 weight is another factor, and finally the tanning process. Some Horse butts are not flushed and rinsed properly and they will get a white powdery substance on them after a while (after you have finished your project) and it just keeps coming back. I quit buying butts from Seigel because of this.

Where are you buying the horse butts? The reputation of the retailer is sometimes a key to quality as well. One thing to remember about any leather is that it isn't a bargain if the quality is so poor that you have projects that look like crap and have to start over. I just don't fool with import leather tanned outside the USA.

Paul
 
I think Rick (Rayban) will back me up on this. Hard rolled is extremely hard to cut and if wet molding is in the forecast, you might well just gorget that. Hard rolled is very similar in stiffness to shoe sole leather, or "sole bends". If you are buying 4 or 6 oz. weights, then it seems slightly better for cutting, but wet molding is till a real iffy situation, and it's still too light weight for a substantial sheath or holster. Soft rolled is the other side of the coin and works more like the veg. tan cowhide (almost)

What do you say, Rick?

Paul
 
While I'm by no means an expert in horse hide, I have been researching and working with it more lately..mainly for making belts.
I've found what Paul says about hard vs soft rolled right on the money.
They both make excellent belt material however, and I'm digging that!
I think....not totally sure...that both retailers mentioned in earlier posts get their butts from Horweens (Chicago), and if that's the case, you can rest assured that it's quality stuff....even with some "spur marks" here and there.

Charlie, check out Horween's site....very interesting....especially the videos on the "gallery" page.
http://horween.com/index.php/main/
 
Thanks for the link rayban.
All of the dishonest and unethical politicians I see coming out of Chicago has given me a pretty dim view of the place, but those old photos and the hard working guys that work there then and now have softened my opinion a bit.

Back to the horse hide. Sounds like I may have just spent twelve bucks on some material to make jaw pads for my vise if the stuffs hard rolled. Don't know why they'd say it's "great" for sheaths and holsters if ya can't wet form the stuff, but I guess it wouldn't be the first time a retailer's "embellished" their product to make a customer out of me. That's OK though, because the one thing this consumer never does is forget.

Thanks again for the help guys.
Charlie
 
Charlie...got fixed blade? Make yourself this type sheath...not much molding required....
ESEE3crossdrawsheath001.jpg


note: never said wet forming it was impossible......just......different
 
Hey guys, follow this link and read the entire article. This guy says and explains what I have found to be true also. I just wish I had read it before I got all excited about horsehide years ago.

http://www.holsters.org/which.htm

Also way at the bottom of the page there are some navigation options for the site and there is a lot of really great information for you holster makers to digest.

Paul
 
Good information for sure sheathmaker. That's why I asked.
I may try doing a sheath like rayban suggests with the horse hide I ordered. If it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. It's not like I bought a boxcar full of the stuff.

rayban,,,, thanks for the suggestion. My plan for my first sheath is to make one for a knife I just put togeather to go in my camp box. No belt loop, no straps, no frills what so ever. The design of the sheath you posted fills that bill perfectly. I might even get brave and add the extra grove like you did, but probably not. (I'm skeered I'll screw it up.)

Now don't laugh, but heres a pic of the knife. It's simple enough (I hope) that making a sheath for it shouldn't be to hard. Even for a rookie like me.
S7301185.jpg

It's just a Green River belt knife blade with Cocobolo scales. Don't ask me why I didn't put a lanyard loop in the dang thing. I have plenty of tubing on hand, and even though I'd never use it, in my mind a camp knife should have a thong hanging from it.
Still kicking myself for that stunt.

I sure do appreciate you and sheathmaker sharing your hard earned experience with me.
Maybe if I live another sixty years I'll be able to put out work like you guys do, but untill then, I'll just keep having fun and learning.
Thanks again.
Charlie
 
Paul...that's a great read by a person who knows what he's talking about....

Charlie, that's a perfect knife for a hard rolled sheath...yeah, I would rather you had left the lanyard tube. With the way you're describing using it, and the style of knife, I would make the pouch plenty deep so only about an inch of handle shows, and a lanyard would have come in handy to pull it out with. Not the end of the world however.......leave an inch and a half showing..pictures next week, right?? .rock on!
 
rayban said:
..pictures next week, right??
Click to expand...

LOL,,, Maybe,,, soon as the rest of my stuff gets here I'll jump right in.

Couple questions on the sheath you posted though.
(1) Since I'm not putting a belt loop on this sheath, the front and back will pretty much look the same. Soooo should I put the stitching grove on the back side and hope that the holes I drill will land in the grove on the opposite side? FWIW,,, I'll use my little bench top drill press for the holes so they "should" be pretty vertical.
(2) I'm planning on using my sewing awl, but I'm thinking that a two needle stich might be better to get both sides to look the same. Yes/no?
Thanks
Charlie
 
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Charlie, yep, front and back will look the same.....cut a third panel too, to make your welt from.

I'd say you're on the right track for grooving the back side as well.....a little trick...drill the holes first, then groove over the holes on the back side, this way if a hole gets a little wayward, you can adjust the groove somewhat. This may cause a slightly wavy stitch line on back, but it's better than missing the groove all together.

And yes, diffidently a two needle saddle stitch.
 
Well,,,,,, the horse hide showed up today.
It appears to be everything you said it wouldn't be and then some. Pretty thin and stiff and the colors blotchy.
I'm not disapointed since it should be good to practice with. I may try making a sheath for my utility knife with it and see how it goes. Once I get some practice under my belt I'll try one of the basic sheaths rayban posted, but for now, I think I'll stick with cow hide per ya'lls recomendation.

Rayban,,,,,, I don't have any needles for saddle stitching on hand and will have to order some, so it may be a couple weeks before I post pix, but rest assured I'll post some when I finish.
I live in the stix and have to order everything anyway, so I'm gonna turn that knife I posted into a kitchen knife or a gift and order another blade along with the needles. That way I can put that missing thong tube in it. I have some more scales on hand and those blades are only 8.50. I just can't get past the missing thong tube, so for that price I'll just do another one. Besides,,, I need the practice.

Off topic a bit, but today I found a sheath I bought a few months ago in the drawer. Not much of a sheath for the money and one of the reason's I decieded to try making my own.
Anyway I tried my hand at wet molding it. The knife doesn't really fit the one size fits all sheath, but it came out ok. Seemed pretty straight forward, and gave me a little more confidence in my new endevor.
Here's the results.
S7301194.jpg

S7301193.jpg

The knife's one of my first attempts, so the ill fitting sheath's a perfect match for it. :eek:
Charlie
 
Charlie, that's a good looking sheath!! Now THAT you can do with that hard rolled....
And about the blotchy-ness....I actually like that....when you dye it a light brown it really looks "character-ish", so don't let that ruin the party...it's the nature of the.....horse.
 
OK,,,, I'm back.
I put a nice big cut on the ende of my right thumb while putting a new handle on an old Plumb axe so I had to hold off on making the new knife for a few days. (Turns out that the end of the thumb on ones dominate hand is involved in just about all aspects of sanding a handle.) ha

Anyway,,,, the knifes done and I made a pattern for the sheath today. I allowed 1/8" all the way around the knife, and another 3/8" for the welt. Came out at 2 3/8" which looks kinda wide to me, but since I don't have a clue as to what I'm doing, it very well might be to narrow to form over the handle area.
I'm hoping Rayban, Sheathmaker, or anyone else will take a look and give me your opinion before I cut.
006.jpg

The handle's about 3/4" at the widest point. Will 1/8' space on both sides be enough, or should I make it a tad wider or maybe a narrower welt?
005.jpg

As usual, thanks for all the help guys.
Charlie
 
Sorry for my late reply.......but I predict you'll be fine with your pattern as is.
 
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