how long until a knife becomes a short sword

I have an older Thai short sword about like this. 20.5" blade.

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stabman said:
I like how this proves that "Knife Selfies" are not a new phenomenon. :D
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Not new at all.... we need our props for photos.... sometimes the prop might get us in trouble like the Navy Seal situation that was decided yesterday in court. Props... can of beer or coke, a knife, a sword, a gun, a Big Mac, special clothing/costume.... whatever it takes!

The knife to sword break is something I have thought about before. I honestly have no answer other than as mentioned it's how you use it that makes the difference. Have this 10" or so blade called the Condor Kumunga. It has a handle like a machete, but the blade is shaped more like a big knife (chopper). What is it?

Definitions are a funny thing.... consider the traditional forum. Most can grasp that a slip joint is a traditional knife. But if a knife that is traditional in every way has a liner lock, is it still traditional? The running answer is No; it's a modern knife, but is it? With fixed blades and traditional knives, I honestly have no idea what is modern vs traditional other than black handled fighting knives are not traditional. Does it have to have stag or a handle made from non-made made materal? Micarta an G-10 would be out then.

Knife > Machete > Sword
 
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Steely_Gunz said:
The Tanto has been designed as a super short sword designed to offer defensive capabilities in tight quarters. It can cut and slash and most likely would not be something you would choose to do manual labor with given its build. I also don't see it as a dagger as it isn't designed for mostly thrusting.
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I think that last sentence calls for qualification because while obviously a Tanto is not method specific as a dagger, it most certainly is
effective for thrusting. In addition to slashing qualities which makes it an effective all around edged weapon. Albeit not the best at other tasks,
but that's not what it was made for.
Some comments made about the cultural context I think are right on. In Japanese the character/word 刀 can be read Katana. Most everyone knows this as the larger length sword carried by Samurai. But that same character 刀 , which can also be read "Toh" is used to mean pretty much anything bladed and combines both sword and knife in it's meaning. A Tanto 短刀　(literally short sword) and a Chef's Knife- a Gyuto 牛刀 (literally beef knife) both use the same character. Even a small kiridashi can be called a Kogatana 小刀 (small/tiny sword/knife).
So my point is simply that culturally speaking, the difference between a Sword and a Knife is more a Western concept.
BTW, in Japan a "Knife" is called a Naifu. And refers almost exclusively to western design/style knives.
 
It is a proven fact swords start at 11.825 inches. :)

As others have said, I don't think there is any hard and fast rule or official definition. I think part is defined by what it was designed to be used for. I wouldn't consider a 24 inch machete to be a sword because it was designed to cut brush. A 14inch wakizashi I would probably consider a short sword because that is what they are designed for. Bowies where built to be used for knife tasks originally. Maybe they become swords when they are no longer practical as a knife? But that would be most of them so...

It is a bit of a grey area.
 
Smatchet? Short sword or knife? Depends on size I guess. If you're a hobbit, it's a sword. But if you're a large man, it's probably just a double edged knife.
 
I was reading a crime report where the victim claimed the attacker came at them with a large sword. The victim latter identified the sword as the k-bar short model with the kranaton handle, which was found on the attacker, along with the victims watch and cellphone. All this to say in some persons eyes it depends.
 
Karambit.... what the hell is it? Really short sword? ;) Knife? Certainly a slasher blade. I don't know if it is actually a knife other than being an edged weapon/tool.
 
I have a knife that is shaped rather like a short sword. Imagine using a pair of these for infighting, like the Thai Krabi-Krabong fighters.

The one on the right ... Actually I have two. This old (free) one and one all but identical made as a gift from an old Thai blacksmith 40 years ago. The gifted one came with a guarantee. "If you chop (swing with it) and doesn't cut, bring it back."

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Romeo Sellspear said:
I have always wondered how long a knife can be before it is considered a short sword. I was also curious about how long a bowie knife should be. I had heard it should be as long as the owners forearm. Because if that's the case I could use some help finding one that's 21 inches long. Thanks for the help
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I'm sure the judge can explain it to you at your sentencing hearing...:rolleyes:
 
rpn said:
Sorry to derail...

But I love these and hope to get something similar at some point
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Mine's a bit old, not an antique, but certainly decently made. Not the newer ones with the etched writing. Mine has engravings and is quite thick back at the hilt, tapering toward the tip. I can see where the edge is hardened. My Thai in-laws wondered why I didn't get a new, shiny one rather than this one that had hung on the wall for years. Quality. It's a beast.
 
Romeo Sellspear said:
So I did a little bit of research and found a German sword called the Grosse Messer which translate to "big knife". After finding this out I about died laughing because I had just posted something on the topic.
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From what I understand the grosses messer came about because at the time swords were reserved for the nobility and soldiery and such, while normal folks were banned from owning swords. There were sword-making and knife-making guilds, and knifemakers began to make sword-sized knives that technically weren't swords. The big difference is the hilt.

Generally speaking, the hilt is one of the main differences between a sword or knife, moreso than the length of the blade; obviously longer blades make better combat weapons. The hilt, balance, and blade design are all optimized for use as a weapon, to the detriment of general utility. Of course there is a lot of gray area as hybrid blades have always been made that can do both tasks! Such as the dah pictured above by USMCPOP - sword and brush tool in one.
 
Also Ninja sword techniques often used reverse grip because they needed to fight indoors in enclosed spaces, giving them
an advantage over the guards who were trained in orthodox styles.
 
DrHenley said:
D Guard Bowies were used as knives, swords, machetes, and also digging implements in the American Civil War. Many were as large as cutlasses, some just large knives. It was a continuous spectrum.

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The photos are haunting and revealing. Looking directly at the lens. Another time, others.
 
The huge bowies used in Civil War photos are often props provided by the photographer. It was common practice at the time for photographers to supply their subjects with prop weapons, or even outfits for the shoot.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
The huge bowies used in Civil War photos are often props provided by the photographer. It was common practice at the time for photographers to supply their subjects with prop weapons, or even outfits for the shoot.
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While I don't doubt photographers had props, are you trying to say that the soldiers didn't really carry D Guard Bowies? Or just that they didn't carry large (sword length) D Guard Bowies? You might be able to make a case for the latter, but...

The large number of original Civil War era D Guard Bowies in existence today (you can get them on eBay) would indicate to me that they were very prevalent. And as a "poor man's sword" I can imagine that the long ones were not uncommon, but...they are not as well represented in the ones still in existence.

If all the D Guard Bowies were just photographers' props, there would not be many still in existence.
 
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According to the City of Seattle, any fixed-blade knife, or folding knife with a blade in excess of 3.5 inches in length, is equivalent to a sword and is, thus, verboten.
 
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