Hunting Knives: Bark River vs Dozier???

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bowler1

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I am looking for some feedback on Bark River vs. Dozier knives for hunting. Forgive me if this has been discussed in the past. I have found some discussion on this but not a lot. What are your thoughts on Bark River vs. Dozier knives in general and most specifically for hunting knives (primarily deer--gutting, skinning, processing)?

Also what model / models do you prefer of these brands as a deer hunting knife?

I currently own both brands and have owned both brands in the past and have mixed feelings on both. My thoughts / comments below:

DOZIER:
I owned a Professional Guide probably 20 years ago and liked it but did not keep it too long. I currently own a Slim Outdoorsman and a Professional Skinner which I just got. I processed a deer this weekend using both knives. I gutted, skinned and quartered the deer with the Pro Skinner. I did not find it ideal for gutting b/c I had a hard time splitting the rib cage open (which I like to do when field dressing). I also found that it was not ideal for cutting out the rectum / anus just because of the length and blade profile where a longer / skinnier blade does better.

For skinning it was okay, but not sure if I would rate it as any better than any other knife. Quartering it did well also but I don't know if it was superior to any other knife in this regard. I was impressed though that after all of this it was still sharp and had no edge deformation of any sort. After butchering the deer though the blade was no longer shaving sharp.

In terms of ergonomics I found the knife to be a bit chunky and not as precise as it could be.

I tried sharpening the blade this morning but have yet to get it truly hair popping sharp after a short time with a Spyderco Sharpmaker with diamond and ceramic sticks. I did not try for long, but usually this sharpener is effective pretty quickly.

BARK RIVER:
I have owned a couple and this year I used both a Gunny Hunter LT in 3V and a Fox River in 3V. I was not thrilled with the performance of the Gunny. I don't know that I prefer the blade design for deer. And after gutting, skinning and quatering a single deer I had some minor folding of the blade edge. A strop brought it back to shaving sharp, but the edge was still visually damaged. I was not expecting that from 3V and a convex edge.

With the Fox River I did the same on one deer and the edge was a bit nicked up after. I used a steel and then a strop and got it back to shaving sharp without any visual blade damage, but it took a long time, unlike other Bark River knives I have owned in 3V that were easy to sharpen. Additionally, I washed the blade and left on my counter wet for about 10 minutes and there was a permanent water stain from on of the water drops. I found this surprising from "3V" as well since I don't think it should stain this easily.

Based on the issues above with both of these two blades it makes me question the heat treatment of them, the edge geometry, and maybe even if they are truly 3V since I have read of there being issues with some knives being incorrectly marked / sold as 3V that were not.

COMPARISON AND TAKEAWAYS:
My initial thoughts: I can get the Bark Rivers sharper and then re-sharpen them easier. They do cut easier in this regard, but the edges seem fragile and I am unsure about the staining issue and quality of the steel and heat treat.

For the Doziers they seem better made and they had no issues with edge deformation or staining, but I don't know that I am going to be able to get them as sharp. Seems they are difficult to get shaving sharp or paper cutting sharp; however, maybe this is not an ultimate test of cutting ability. But I can say that in slicing up chunks of meat today the Bark River did slice and push cut slightly better than either Dozier.

I do believe that I probably don't prefer the blade design of the Pro Skinner, but that should not be the determing factor for all Dozier knives. I am considering a Yukon Pro Skinner or another model that may be a bit more controllable and svelte. The Slim Outdoorsman is very controllable.


Thoughts on these two brands and their models and / or feedback on my comments above? I have not yet decided which brand I prefer. I leaned toward Dozier based on quaity and reputation, but not being able to get them sharp may be an issue and a deal breaker.

Matt
 
As a follow-up I will add that if I do keep the Fox river I probably would have probably send back to Bark river to have the extended tang ground off. I don't know why they have that as part of the design and find it gets in the way.

If I end up going with Dozier instead it won't be the Pro Skinner. It's a bit chunky to me and I don't like the feel and controllability. I would probably go with the Yukon Skinner, the General Purpose, Straight Hunter, Kings River Semi Skinner or Columbia River Skinner.

Matt
 
Just a quick suggestion before the Mike Stewart bashing begins.....go with Dozier...
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Stick with Dozier and I think you’ll be happy with a Columbia River skinner, I’ve owned them before and they work great for field dressing and skinning! Great size and that drop point blade profile is very capable for many other uses as well. It makes a great hunting knife.
 
Yeah, I like the design of the Columbia River Skinner best of all the Dozier blades I think....at least from the pictures. However, I don't know where to get one unfortunately since AG Russell doesn't sell that one so I would have to wait for a chance opportunity to buy one if it pops up for sale somewhere.....which it might but it could take some time.

Agree on the Mike Stewart bashing possibility. I did not allude to it in my post but I know there are mixed feelings about him and his knives. I have no issues with his reputation as long as the product is quality; however, my comments above probably indicate that I have doubts about the quality of the blades I got from him. They look great but the blade staining and edge durability have me questioning a bit.

Matt
 
Dozier's D2 works best with a coarse edge. As for 3V, the minor damage you mention seems pretty inconsequential and easily amended. It's much smaller grained than D2 and should take a finer edge.
 
Bark River is infamous for it's burnt edges, though if you ask Mike Stewart he insists it's impossible that a single knife of his goes out with a burnt edge. Have you tried sharpening the Bark Rivers past the burnt metal? They use Peter's Heat treat for their knives which is a reputable heat treating service so the steel past the factory edge should perform better. But yeah, I've also had issues with Bark River's 3v including micro chipping and rolling from wood chopping that didn't put a dent in some other knives of mine with supposedly lesser steel.
 
I have carried a Dozier Prof Guides knife for almost 25 yrs as my ‘go-to’ field knife. I also have a slim outdoorsman and skinner as well as a neck knife. I don’t know what you are using to sharpen them, but I can get hair-popping sharp pretty quickly with a Spyderco angle sharpener and I use a Worksharp ceramic and strop at the cabin for touch up. I think Dozier knives are great designs and quality. I also love the simplicity and design of their horizontal sheaths- very slim compared to using a Tek-Lok device.
I have a BR Cub and Crusader and like them both, but the Cub was not as finished as the Crusader.
I hope you find what you are wanting. Stay safe.
 
I clean a fair number of deer and pigs each season, often 3 - 5 after a single hunt. I’ve been through a lot of knives over the years including Doziers including the Pro Skinner. My impression was the same as yours. I only owned one Bark River and gave it away after one use.

This last season I used a Kephart in 20cv made by Paul Rasp dba CPE Knives. I give it a solid thumbs up. He is on this forum, but I cannot remember his handle. It was a delight to use. Comfortable in hand and a very easy to use and like design, the best execution of a Kephart I’ve used. Edge retention was excellent. His prices are reasonable for the quality, comparable to the two you mentioned. His Kydex sheath is well made too. Definitely recommend trying his Kephart.

Gene Ingram made some good performing designs for cleaning deer, but he has mostly retired. His knives are worth watching for, pick one up if you have the opportunity.

If Phil Wilson will make a knife for you, jump at it. His work is the pinnacle for edge performance.
 
jeffbird said:
I clean a fair number of deer and pigs each season, often 3 - 5 after a single hunt. I’ve been through a lot of knives over the years including Doziers including the Pro Skinner. My impression was the same as yours. I only owned one Bark River and gave it away after one use.

This last season I used a Kephart in 20cv made by Paul Rasp dba CPE Knives. I give it a solid thumbs up. He is on this forum, but I cannot remember his handle. It was a delight to use. Comfortable in hand and a very easy to use and like design, the best execution of a Kephart I’ve used. Edge retention was excellent. His prices are reasonable for the quality, comparable to the two you mentioned. His Kydex sheath is well made too. Definitely recommend trying his Kephart.

Gene Ingram made some good performing designs for cleaning deer, but he has mostly retired. His knives are worth watching for, pick one up if you have the opportunity.
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I just got a CPE Tanto style Magnacut and am very impressed with fit/finish/design. He is easy to find under ‘fixed blades’ for sale. Mine is not a hunting knife, but seeing the quality of the knife, and how great Paul was to deal with I think jeffbird may have steered you in the right direction.
 
bowler1 said:
Forgive me if this has been discussed in the past. I have found some discussion on this but not a lot.
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Did you find the part about what a douchebag Mike Stewart (BRK owner) is?

His criminal, immoral and unethical actions should instantly disqualify any consideration of BRK. That, and the fact that BRK has a disproportionate number of catastrophic failures, quality issues and warranty claims.
 
Yes, I have heard many things about Mike Stewart's character. I am not a fan of people with poor ethics, but it would not necessarily prevent me from buying his product if it is a superior one. However, I have also read about the quality issues which makes me question his products. The quality issues could be related to the character issues of the owner.

On the other hand there are a slew of people on the internet raving about BR knives. I saw those before reading the negative comments and the positive reviews seems to out-number the negatives.

But.....are those positive reviews just internet BS where all these people are paid to make positive reviews and videos of a product? I guess I am starting to think that is the case. When researching a purchase I often look for reviews and watch videos, etc. This seems like a good way to be an informed consumer, but nowadays I don't know what to believe since many of these people are probably paid to make positive reviews. Too bad that someone has to weed through what is true and what is a paid lie.

I generally trust feedback from forums the most. For the most part they are real people with informed opinions. Maybe I need to rely more on posts like this than on watching Youtube reviews.

Matt
 
I've never heard a single person with anything negative to say about Dozier. It seems like half of BF has something negative to say about Bark River. So based on reputation alone, I think the question is, do you want a great knife from a great company or a questionable knife from a questionable company?
 
Yes, this has been part of my decision making process. At the end of the day it's all about performance. I do have to admit that when cubing up meat yesterday I did find that the Bark River Fox River sliced better than the Dozier....partly b/c of blade geometry and partly becuase I am able to get the blade super sharp which I was not necessarily able to do with the Dozier after an admittedly half-hearted attempt.

I do believe the Dozier is clearly the better quality product and company, but in order for it to perform I need to be able to get it sharp so that's a trade off. I am sure I could do so with a bit more work. That may be the answer to my question---stick with Dozier and just learn how to get it very sharp.

Matt
 
I definitely recommend you check out this channel:

He drifts towards bark rivers, but is also quick to point out issues with them. He also explains steel, sharpening, hunting applications very well...if you can understand him :)

Good luck!
 
Yes! I like that guy and watch a lot of his videos. He seems to be a huge Bark River fan, but again I question if he is being paid by them, along with several other of the Bark River fan vids.

I have not really seen him test too many other knives so I can't use his videos as a good basis of comparison.

Yes, on the Ingram knives. I would buy one but they seem to be impossible to find.

Matt
 
bowler1 said:
Yes, I have heard many things about Mike Stewart's character. I am not a fan of people with poor ethics, but it would not necessarily prevent me from buying his product if it is a superior one. However, I have also read about the quality issues which makes me question his products. The quality issues could be related to the character issues of the owner.

On the other hand there are a slew of people on the internet raving about BR knives. I saw those before reading the negative comments and the positive reviews seems to out-number the negatives.

But.....are those positive reviews just internet BS where all these people are paid to make positive reviews and videos of a product? I guess I am starting to think that is the case. When researching a purchase I often look for reviews and watch videos, etc. This seems like a good way to be an informed consumer, but nowadays I don't know what to believe since many of these people are probably paid to make positive reviews. Too bad that someone has to weed through what is true and what is a paid lie.

I generally trust feedback from forums the most. For the most part they are real people with informed opinions. Maybe I need to rely more on posts like this than on watching Youtube reviews.

Matt
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Honestly, these forums just like any online community can be quite an echo chamber on their own, especially when the community as a whole decided they don’t like a brand or a certain person who represents that brand or if you question the hallowed opinion of some long time member. Just about every Bark River thread turns into a shit show, for instance. Or on Reddit for instance, don’t even try to bring up Greg Medford or post pictures of his knives, that’ll turn into a similar caliber shit show, it’s just the way online communities are. Go on the bark river Facebook page and try to bring up burnt edges or bad quality control and be ready to be treated like you just committed cardinal sin. Seriously, it’s crazy how scared people are to post negative feedback there.

I’ve seen people claim to collect 100 or more bark rivers without a single defect, which seems crazy to me because 2 of my 3 bark rivers had either a bad grind or burnt edge. My best bet is they don’t really use the enough to notice any defects before they’re on to their next purchase. I don’t think anyone is getting paid for positive reviews, it’s more that people tend to review their purchases enthusiastically before even really getting to see what the knife can do.
 
I understand not every Dozier design may be your perfect hunter but in general I have always found his knives to be far better for field use than Bark River.
 
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