I came here to learn about leather crafting

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Nov 21, 2017
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61
Hi everyone,
I've been lurking for a week or so, trying to absorb the gallons of information that can be found here :)

I dabbled with leather a bit about 2 years ago, and quickly switched to working with kydex because it is so much simpler. I don't like the fact that leather beat me up, so I decided to become a student and attempt to learn some things.

After reading a lot and watching a ton of Youtube videos, I decided to give it another go. My SOG Powerlock needed a sheath:



IMG_20171125_210950_zps4kpbvchz.jpg



My retention is fantastic, the tool almost "clicks" into place and doesn't wiggle at all, still being relatively easy to pull out when needed. It also rides very comfy on my belt, which is a huge improvement from the terrible pouch it came with.

Horsewright's Pancake Sheath thread was ridiculously helpful, as were many of the other stickies! I'd appreciate honest feedback as I can see a lot of room to improve haha

A few questions:
  1. How do you all get your edges impossibly smooth? Is there a compound or something that helps? I used 220 grit on my belt grinder and then finished them off with an antler. But I still am not satisfied with the results.
  2. The inside of the sheath (as well as within the belt loops) has a lot of little leather fibers. Is there a way to bevel the edges or some other technique to clean up the appearance? I hit them over and over again with my antler, but to little effect.
  3. I used resolene/water (50/50, submerged) for my water proofing. This got the sheath firmer than before, but certainly not stiff. Is there any tricks for this?
Thank you!
AJ
 
Looks like a very nice job for a beginning leather crafter. Nice design and good construction. You would be amazed at what the exact same time and effort would have produced had you used better quality leather.

Much of what you are dissatisfied with goes right back to the quality of leather used. it appears from your photos that your leather was either belly leather or came from an area close to the belly. This is directly attributable to the "fuzzies" and the less than perfect edge finish you experienced. The fiber make up of belly leather is much looser (less firm hand) and almost always will have some of the fuzzies. Try to always choose leather, if you can, that comes from the back or shoulder of the animal. The better the leather the easier to get good edges.

Straight resolene will only make your leather water resistant, not waterproof and at 50/50 even less so. Dampening your finished leather (not soaking) and then using a hair dryer to flash dry it will stiffen it up quite nicely. Then a sparing application of Neatsfoot Oil or similar and then your full strength Resolene, or TanKote, or whatever finish you prefer.

Paul
 
Paul,
Thanks for the kind words!
I'd swear this leather was a shoulder (I have another still that I bought at the same time ). But I did notice after I got it that it seemed fuzzier than normal. I'll pay more attention to getting a better piece in the future.

I've got Obenaughs oil as well as their protecant, could I use either of those in this application for waterproofing effects?

-AJ
 
I'd agree on the leather. fact that was my first thought when scrolling through your pics before I'd seen Paul's response. A single shoulder or double shoulder can have some belly in it depending on how well it was trimmed. Another tell tale sign is those wrinkles at the bottom of your slots. Ya just won't see that in a tighter grained piece. Also see how the leather kind of pulled up with your beveller on the left side of your right slot (the back side of your sheath pic). Another indicator.

For your questions:

1) On the edges better leather will go a long ways helping ya here. When sanding remember to go both directions on the edge. I sand at 120 grit and then again at 400 grit if the project is not wet molded. If it is wet molded I will rub the edges just before molding just using the dampness in the leather. After the project has dried I will rub the edges again using Wyoming Quick Slik. Gum Traganath has been used for centuries to slick leather edges. Ya can get it from Tandy or about any leather supplier. I prefer Wyoming Quick Slik from Barry King. They both work the same way, dampen your prepared leather edges with the product and rub briskly. Your piece of antler will work well as will a hardwood stick or even a piece of canvas. I like to put two coats of a finish (BagKote) on the edges after rubbing. Seems to help things over a long period of time and use.

2) The answer to this question is completely better leather. Not much else a guy can do here.

3) So I don't try to waterproof leather. Ya can't and have it remain leather. I think people misunderstand leather finishes and what they are suppose to do. For more stiffness in your project again ya come back to better leather. Loose grained leather is not going to get stiff. Paul's method with the blowdryer works very well as does my baking as explained in that thread you mentioned. However, to get the good stuff ya got to have the good stuff before ya start.

All that aside ya did great work, ya really did. Nice job. The same work ya did on a better piece of leather and it would of been simply outstanding.

Keep reading some of the back pages here on Sheaths and Such there is lot of info here. Also its very helpful for us to answer specific questions like you asked. Thanks.
 
Horsewright,
I appreciate the info and compliments!

It seems better leather is going to be a top priority, as well as getting something for the edges to slick them up. I also added Pro Carv to my list, based on your glowing words about it in your thread.

I've got another question:
Is it possible to wet form with only glue holding the pieces together? My thread was originally white, but when I wet formed the dye bled off into it, so I redyed the thread for consistent coverage. However, I really wanted that white thread. Will water weld hold strong enough for me to cram the object in there and then wet form it?

Thanks!
-AJ
 
K KingsArmourer

Well AJ, I simply don't know I've never tried it. Sounds like a good experiment. I dislike dyeing leather and just about won't. Here's why. I've found over the years that a dyed object has about half the life span of the undyed just oiled object. Most of the things I make will get used very hard in some very harsh weather conditions. Not gonna see a lot of care a lot of times. The oiled items just out last the dyed ones.

When I did dye I would always dye the item after sewing, never did the contrasting thread thing as the dye would dye the white thread too. So if that's the look you are going for with contrasting thread it does indeed sound like an experiment.
 
Horsewright Horsewright I will have to experiment and see how the results work out. At least for my own projects, the conditions they will be subject to aren't really that harsh. Maybe some snow or water, but always back inside a warm house at the end of the day.

However, use and conditions is a great thing to keep in mind as I expand my abilities.

Thanks!
 
AJ, about 90% of my work is sewn with brown thread, so no problem with any dye bleed into the thread. If a customer requests white or other color thread, I complete the sheath including finish sealer and rubbing before sewing. Only way I've found to keep the pristine white thread white.
 
Awesome, thanks Rick!

I'm using black on my current project, but Im glad to know how to avoid discoloring the thread in the future.
 
Both the two US major tanneries (Wickett and Craig and Herman Oak) of premium veg tan leather produce it in several colors including black, browns, russets etc. This leather has been drum dyed and is color fast. Literally no bleed. might think on that option too. Springfield will sell it in small precut pieces for sheath size projects so ya don't have to buy a whole side. Buying leather that way is very expensive per the foot but it will let ya try and see what you are missing with out dropping couple hundred buck. It is good to know from Rick's experience that wet molding prior to sewing will work though.
 
Wow, I never even thought of buying drum dyed! I will have to look into the cost and see what the difference would be, but that's a great idea to ensure my contrast stays over time!
 
A little more about drum dyed leathers. Wicket&Craig will up charge for the drum dyed goods at 15 cents per square foot. That makes an average 23 square foot side cost $3.45 cents over all more than the equivalent natural or Russett sides. Now considering that the price of dye is average slightly more than $3.45 for the 4 Oz. bottle you can see there is already a great savings in dye expense alone, but when you add the labor and mess of doing it yourself it kind of becomes a no brainer. The trade off is that you have to be doing sufficient volume in a given color to justify having at least one full side on hand of each color you work with. In my case it's five colors and I may go more if they become available.

I use mostly Russet, Chestnut, Brown, and Black in about equal quantities.

W&C currently has 7 colors in skirting: Russet, Natural, Chestnut, Oak, Brown, Mahogany, and Black, and sometimes Havana which is a very dark brown. See link "skirting" below

skirting

If you are just an occasional or hobby maker then buying the russet and dying your own may be the best route for you, because you can get various colors out of just one side, but keep in mind drum dyed leather is really more efficient and overall less costly than doing your own.

Paul
 
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Never thought of it that way Paul. Makes a guy go hmmm.
 
Paul,
That's good to know! I do love the concept, but you're absolutely right, I am nowhere near the point of keeping 5 different sides on hand just to save myself the hassle of dying. But, maybe one day I will be :)

-AJ
 
When I started using the drum dyed goods, I started with Black because it is such a monumental pain in the ass to work with black dye so that made my inventory just Russet and Black. Then over time I added the Chestnut and even later the Brown BUT all that time my volume of orders justified the increase in on hand inventory. Point is, as you grow, you can step into the dyed goods a little at a time. It will make life easier and the quality of your work as it pertains to color will improve.

In addition, you might take a page out of Dave's play book which I share, and only offer oiled russet and maybe rarely dyed black. Don't try to be all things to all people. My successful policy is "I do the things I do and I do them well.....and I don't do the things I don't do at all!"

Paul
 
I'm totally with Paul on drum dyed and figuring the cost in material and time to hand dye large lots. Quit doing that about 4yrs. ago and buy nothing but drum dyed, well, do buy natural bends for sheath work. On average we buy 6-8 backs a week (almost twice that this time of year) and one can imagine the "lost" time if all that had to be hand dyed. I find no problem with dye bleeding except on white thread finished with sealer. Do buy my leather from RJF Leather as a personal preference, but have enjoyed buying from the other big suppliers.

Have to say that I enjoy working with, and looking at, natural oil finished leather. My favorite for that is Wickett-Craig Russet.
 
While I'm not in the same league as people like Paul and Dave, I feel like I can offer some tips from the hobbyist-level.

-Edge burnishing can be a bit of a dark art. How damp should the leather be? How hard should I be pressing Vs. how fast should I be moving? ect... Everyone has their own formula, and no one ever agrees 100%. So I recommend practice, practice, practice. I have a box full of scraps leftover from projects, and a lot of those scraps have nicely burnished edges from when I've been practicing. No matter who's advice you follow, it'll take some practice to get that perfect feel for it.

EzBows3.jpg

Burnished vs raw edge.

-Interior fuzziness: Tan-Kote. Use a paintbrush to apply, it sets in only a minute or two and will slick down the fuzzy bits and form a smooth, hard finish. Obviously nicer leather won't need it, but can still be useful in certain applications.

TGnDcpS.jpg


-Water "proofing" As Dave said, you're not going to get true waterproofing. Still, I use a product called Sno-Seal as my last step. It's beeswax based and does several good things (in my opinion). It soaks into the leather, darkening it slightly and giving it a rich glossy finish. It helps repel water, making it less likely that you'll get water spots on your brand new sheath the first time it gets a little water splashed on it. It smells great (to me at least) and finally I use it as a final edge burnishing compound. I've heard of people using straight beeswax as well.


Hope some of that helps, my main point is just to practice. That can mean just doing a lot of little projects for yourself or friends, but as your projects get bigger, better, and more complex I'd recommend trying out your skills on scrap leather before messing up a project that you've been working on for days.

Edit: Forgot a few things:

Nice job!

And I wouldn't worry about dyeing your own leather, while my oldest stuff is only about 2 years old, it shows no signs of degradation even with daily use. I think for all of us who don't make our living on horseback, dyed is fine.
 
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Sno-Seal as a final edge burnisher. Interesting. I would not have considered it. As I'm still working to perfect my skill in that area...... I think I'll give it a try. Sno-Seal is normally my final step, as well.
 
Wow, ya'll have been busy while I was working :)

Paul, I will start off with better leather, and look at drum dyed options in the future. I really have a love for mahogany, so perhaps I will find that I can justify a piece of that! You also have a very good policy, one that I probably will need to pay more attention to in the future! I have definitely gotten in over my head on things before - I did a kydex sheath for a double-bitted axe that took me 2 months and I lost twice as much as I charged the guy. But, I will say I learned a lot about bending while working on that dumb thing...

Rick, I just stitched up a sheath last night that's dyed mahogany and had white thread. I let the dye dry for well over 24 hours, and experienced no bleeding while stitching. Hopefully it will stay like that :D

WhiteKnuckle: I appreciate the hobbyist input! I'll have to get me a bottle of that tan-kote, as I still have another shoulder of fuzzy leather to work my way through...
 
+1 on the W & C russet leather. Color doesn't get any better and screams quality:

xptligM.jpg


I too am big on doing what I do. I have learned that the hard way. I was talking to a potential customer a while back that was taking a knife on Safari in Africa. He wanted a specific sheath for this knife and by the time he got all done describing what he was wanting I gave him Paul's phone number. He was wanting one of Paul's sheaths not one of my sheaths.
 
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