I.P. theft.....Not OK or OK ? when or with what ?

Hinderer Lockbar Stabilizer and Emerson Wave are two features that come to mind. I have read that Emerson will pursue people that use the wave or wave like feature without his permission. The LBS? Dont know. Maybe Hinderer doesnt care as much. Meybe he does and I just havent heard otherwise. Lock styles fall in this category. Who created the Liner Lock. (Walker I think). Who created the Frame Lock? (Reeve). How many umpteen millions of knives are made with those locks every year? You rarely year those two referenced. I think when it is something so unique that it is patentable or trademarked, it should be respected. When one makers use of a feature, potentially takes money from the creator of that feature, then it is wrong. For an interesting take on this, google the story of the first motorized windsheid wiper system and how one of the major auto companies screwed its designer.
 
Hinderer Lockbar Stabilizer and Emerson Wave are two features that come to mind. I have read that Emerson will pursue people that use the wave or wave like feature without his permission. The LBS? Dont know. Maybe Hinderer doesnt care as much. Meybe he does and I just havent heard otherwise. Lock styles fall in this category. Who created the Liner Lock. (Walker I think). Who created the Frame Lock? (Reeve). How many umpteen millions of knives are made with those locks every year? You rarely year those two referenced. I think when it is something so unique that it is patentable or trademarked, it should be respected. When one makers use of a feature, potentially takes money from the creator of that feature, then it is wrong. For an interesting take on this, google the story of the first motorized windsheid wiper system and how one of the major auto companies screwed its designer.

If I am understanding correctly (to an extent at least), Reeve did not put any sort of patent on the RIL. He did it purposely. Walker on the other hand, was unaware of it at the time, or was duped into waiting, or something external prevented him from actually doing that.
 
Forgeries occur because there is a huge market for it
Mainly because not everyone can afford an original.
A good design is recognised for its form and to some extend it's, originality.
So yeah, nobody but knife nuts would bother about technical stuff like quality and materials use in its construction.
I doubt if attitudes are going to change any day soon.
Designs come and go all the time.
As do generations of successive consumers.
We can only try to better educate people on better consumer ethics.
But in the end it's their decision, choice and money.
 
There's a sandwich at Denny's called the Superbird. I make the sandwich at home and it's better tasting. I feel no guilt. No shame. I've thought about selling it at block parties.

Come and get me.
 
There's a sandwich at Denny's called the Superbird. I make the sandwich at home and it's better tasting. I feel no guilt. No shame. I've thought about selling it at block parties.

Come and get me.

Does the Superbird have any distinguishing features like a kind of locking mechanism blade profile, handle shape or distinguishing things other than Turkey, Sourdough,, Tomato and Cheese?

Hardly an original! LOL No need to come and get you for your version of a "Denny's sandwich" that you say is better? I sure hope it is? LOL:D Thanks for the laugh!
 
As long as there's nothing illegal about replicating a basic design or manufacturing process, then I don't see a problem with it. If these things didn't happen then Ford would still be the only company mass producing vehicles and pharmaceutical companies would be able to forever price gouge. I don't know about you guys, but I've taken plenty of generic medications and i drive a vehicle that was made via GM copying Ford's production method. Competition is a good thing. If a patent expired, then it's not illegal, and fair game for people to duplicate and bring competition to the market. That's the whole reason patents expire to begin with. I believe that's the right thing to do.

Trademarks are a little different, exact copies with a counterfeit trademark hurts everyone. If something is marked as being made by a specific company, then it should be made by that specific company. If there's no patent broken, then copies and competition are good for the market and us consumers. Trademark violations hurt everyone except the company who stole the trademark. That's the line in the sand for me.
 
The first question that seems to be asked when someone is called out on it is; "Is it patented ?" or "Is is copyrighted ?"


I am talking about style, something that identifies a object as the makers own.
David

Everyone seems to agree that patent or copyright infringement and outright counterfeiting are wrong. The reason these threads go there is because these are clear answers with no gray area.

"Style" would be much harder to define. Some designs being more IP theft than others and this varying depending on the person making the decision.
 
Everyone seems to agree that patent or copyright infringement and outright counterfeiting are wrong. The reason these threads go there is because these are clear answers with no gray area.

"Style" would be much harder to define. Some designs being more IP theft than others and this varying depending on the person making the decision.


I wonder if Loveless gets a royalty every time someone copies his style. At what point does a design style become mainstream and therefore acceptable to copy? When the original creator goes out of business, dies, or publicly state that others can use the design? I think style is completely fair game unless the creator actually patents the design, even then, the design patent lasts, what, 15 years or whatever. The laws are in place for a reason, to protect those who engineer new and innovative products. They have a certain amount of time to recoup their costs. At the time the patent expires, the design becomes public and competition is free to drive prices down if possible.

For instance, edge pro. Patent expired. Plenty of products came on to the market prior to the patent expiring. They blatantly copied the product down to the instruction manual, basically infringing on both patent and trademark. Now that the patent expired, there are products that blatantly stole the design, but put a different company name on it and change the instruction manual to exclude the name edge pro. That's ok, no patent or trademark infringement. The product is very much worth the 40 bucks or whatever it costs, and hopefully edge pro becomes more affordable in order to compete in the marketplace. They had 20 years to recoup the research and development costs, and I'm sure they did. Now it's capitalism working it's magic and new companies are emerging that took the design and tweaked it and they're selling it for even better prices. That's capitalism.

Wicked edge, on the other hand, still has a patent. Copying that design is illegal. They haven't had the 15 or 20 years to recoup their r and d costs. But when it does expire, everyone and their dog should jump on it to drive the prices down because the wicked edge is basically the same design as other clamping knife sharpeners. There's nothing really new about the concept itself, they just took the design, made it fairly unique, and patented the product. That's innovation. Should they maintain a monopoly on that design forever? No and congress, in the fairest and arguably free-est nation, has decided that monopolies are bad for the country, so they forbid permanent monopolies while still allowing a fair chance at letting innovation run freely. After all, it's money that drives it all. Innovators get their chance to earn money, and then consumers get to benefit from competition.
 
What about wave mods? Look at what Demko/CS did to get around Emerson's patent ... wave thumb plate.

Its hard for me care about emersons patent. I will always feel he simply adopted an existing feature for a new purpose and patented it out of another companies hands.
 
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