I wonder how sharp knives on the prairie were kept?

Macchina

Macchina

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A fun sideffect of the traditional knife hobby is the link you have to the past when you carry a pattern that was created centuries ago. As I go through my traditional fixed blades I wonder about how sharp a belt knife could have and would have been maintained on homesteads in the Old West. On one hand there was so much work to be done, much that didn't involve knives, but also much that did. As we all know a task done with a sharp knife is easier and faster than with a dull knife.

I wonder if time was spent after dark around a lamp with a whetstone putting a fine edge on one's belt knife before going to bed. On the other hand, were knives used for so much more than cutting that the edge was often neglected? I wouldn't think so as metal tools were valuable and a sharp knife would be so darn handy.

The tools would have been plenty available to keep a knife sharp. Straight razors existed and so did surgical instruments that were literally razor sharp and reused (and therefore maintained and sharpened). The fact that Flint-lock and percussion cap rifles and muskets worked at all is proof enough that the people of the time took care of their equipment.

Let's muse on this one. If you have documentation of knife sharpening in the Old West I'd love to read about it, fiction is good too. Any stories of a knife that most have been carefully sharpened to a razor edge?

One of the knives that inspired this train of thought:

DSC_1202_zpstmw3ekbx.jpg
 
I like the question that you have posed. I have no answers. I look forward to herring from others.
 
That's a funny thing to think about, and not in a bad way. I guess when I think about it, I go back to helping on my grandpas dairy farm. Knives were tools, nothing fancy about them at all. I can remember throwing bales down from the haymow to lay out fresh bedding for the cows and when our knives would get dull, we'd swipe them on the concrete window openings so that they could easily cut the twine again. That was about it. Basically we kept our pocket knives "sharp enough" to do the job. We'd use rocks in the fields as well. (Mind you, even this was only 25 years ago or so).

I'm guessing that in the pioneer days or Old West, the same held true as well, since there probably wasn't an emphasis on razor edges unless you were the local barber. There wasn't a need for that keen of an edge on a normal work knife, nor for the one that may have been used to stab a guy for cheating at cards.

Then again, I could be completely wrong and that's why I'll follow this thread!
 
The only thing I know about knife sharpening in the Old West is from Lonesome Dove.

"Bolivar brought out a whetstone and spent twenty minutes or so sharpening the fine bone-handled knife that he wore at his belt. The handle was made from the horn of a mule deer and the thin blade flashed in the moonlight as Bolivar carefully drew it back and forth across the whetstone, spitting on the stone now and then to dampen it's surface. Although Newt liked Bolivar and considered him a friend, the fact that Bol felt it necessary to sharpen the knife every night made him a little nervous...When he asked him about it Bol smiled and tested the blade gently with his thumb."

It also talks about Pea Eye having a Bowie knife that he took out once in a while to make sure it hadn't lost it's edge.

Sorry I can't be more helpful with actual history. I'd bet that Jake is probably right, though. I doubt that a razor edge was a big concern. They'd just want it to get the job done. They had more important things to worry about than whether or not their blade could cleanly cut phone book paper. Things like staying alive and keeping their families fed.

That is a lovely Hess you have there. I have messaged back and forth with them and they've invited me to stop in their shop next time I'm in the U.P. I plan on doing just that and seeing if I can't pick something up from them first hand.
 
I think with the exception of barbers and doctors, knives in the old days were just taken to a stage of 'sharp enough'. I don't think the average homesteader or cowboy spent much money on sharpening stones, and probably just used what was available for cheap. Or free if it was there. A smooth stone from a creek, a rough old whetstone at a black smith shop, or a small stone in a saddle bag or on a shelf in the barn.

Most of the really old knives I see have the blades worn down to a pale shadow of what they used to be. I don't think the wear did that, but the course sharpening medium that the knife was used on. A rock sometimes. The old mountain men, sodbusters, and cowpokes didn't have 1000 grit diamond homes, or Japanese water stones. If it was some farm out on the Nebraska or Kansas prairie, there might be some hand cranked rough stone wheel in the shed.

I think a lot of those old knives had the blades ground away over the years, and when it was a sharp awl, it just got replaced with whatever the general store in town had cheap.
 
I spent most of my youth as a farm hand and I needed a knife daily. This is where I learned the importance of a stockman knife. Not every job needed that hair splitting edge and at times my Spey blade was a bit of a chizzel, screwdriver, pry bar... etc. I definitely abused that knife, but when it came down to it I was on the back forty and running to the barn for a tool box wasn't an option. My point being, that spey had an edge, but not one to write home about.

The main clip blade had a ton of miles on it before I left the farm and was kept with a very sharp to just an okay edge and regardless of how much it was used it was touched up every day/night. It was the twine busting, plastic cutting, drip line sizing, stake sharpening blade, as well as slicing up fresh tomatoes for sandwhiches at work.

The sheepsfoot was kept scary sharp. The very point/tip needed to be needle point because it proved to be perfect for splinter detail. It was rarely used for much more then that. On long days when I had blunted the edge on the main blade I pushed the sheep into the fold.

As far as sheeth knives go I think it's important to maintain the edge as best as possible. I don't used a fixed blade until the winds get a chill and the leaves change. After someone on the farm has punched a tag and it's time to butcher game it's nice to have a sharp blade that can split hide just as easy as it dismembers limbs and for that it doesn't have to be scary sharp, but it shouldn't be considered dull in the least.

There is no excuse for having a dull unusable edge on a knife unless you have back ups. I imagine that applies to the way it was back then as well! Skinning with a butter knife is a chore and a half! And yet, I don't think many frontiersman were worried that the mirror polished edge was gone after cutting up some venison.
 
My late dad grew up on a family farm, then worked blue collar jobs the rest of his life. He was also always doing some projects around the yard as well. His old pocket knives' main blades were always sharpened down to a fraction of their sizes. The blades were usually rusty to some degree and some even had some minor pitting on them. The edges were sharp enough for his purposes, but a good ways from 'hair-shaving sharp'. He wasn't sentimental about them, either. When they were too worn out, he'd toss them in some tool box and get another knife.

When he was on the farm, I doubt his pocketknives lasted more than maybe a couple years or so. Most of his really old knives were made by Camillus.

Edit to add:

My dad's knives included scout-style knives, 2-blade jackknives, and much later an early Buck 110. Oddly, I don't think he ever had a stockman.

Jim
 
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I grew up on a dairy farm in rural, Northern NY. In addition to daily chores there was always hunting, trapping and butchering to be done. I never experienced a shaving sharp blade. I have to agree with Jake on this one, it was an uncommon experience to see a finely honed blade. My Dad was a farrier and his hoove knives fell into the same category, sharp enough to do the job at hand and nothing more. Not at all uncommon to see the old timers using a fine file on their cutting tools or a coarse stone at best. No fine stones to speak of, much less stropping! Probably the finest edge I experienced was that my Grandfather would put on his trusty Marble's Woodcraft (which I still treasure).

Many of the old knives we see today with worn blades were the result of poor and frequent sharpening practices. I suspect a majority of the prairie blades experienced the same life cycle.
 
I suspect that people back then were not a lot different from people now. Some took good care of their knives, investing in a good honing stone, while others just used whatever coarse surface was handy to put a working edge on their knives.

My grandfather was born in 1910 in Thatcher, AZ, and his first knife was a Case ordered from the Sears Roebuck catalog around 1919-1920.. Although he was never a farmer or anything like that (he ended up being an architect), he was a knife knut and was very particular about the edge on his knives. I never asked him if his fondness for knives was inherited from his father or someone else in the family.

A lot of the 100+ year old knives that I have show signs of being sharpened on something very coarse, and often just have a sliver of blade left.

Around 1931, a survey done by Remington showed that the average half life of a pocketknife was two years. At that time Remington was making 10,000 knives/day, and they were only one of many knifemakers. In 1940, Imperial was making 100,000 knives per DAY (I suspect that a lot of those were the cheap shell-handled jacks). People went through a lot of knives back then. Used hard, worn out by hard use and hard sharpening, abuse (I have seen a lot of knives from that era with broken blades), and lost.
 
Macchina said:
A fun sideffect of the traditional knife hobby is the link you have to the past when you carry a pattern that was created centuries ago. As I go through my traditional fixed blades I wonder about how sharp a belt knife could have and would have been maintained on homesteads in the Old West. On one hand there was so much work to be done, much that didn't involve knives, but also much that did. As we all know a task done with a sharp knife is easier and faster than with a dull knife.

I wonder if time was spent after dark around a lamp with a whetstone putting a fine edge on one's belt knife before going to bed. On the other hand, were knives used for so much more than cutting that the edge was often neglected? I wouldn't think so as metal tools were valuable and a sharp knife would be so darn handy.

The tools would have been plenty available to keep a knife sharp. Straight razors existed and so did surgical instruments that were literally razor sharp and reused (and therefore maintained and sharpened). The fact that Flint-lock and percussion cap rifles and muskets worked at all is proof enough that the people of the time took care of their equipment.

Let's muse on this one. If you have documentation of knife sharpening in the Old West I'd love to read about it, fiction is good too. Any stories of a knife that most have been carefully sharpened to a razor edge?

One of the knives that inspired this train of thought:

DSC_1202_zpstmw3ekbx.jpg
Click to expand...

That knife is GORGEOUS! What's the make/model?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I want to believe that knife sharpening was a skill that most folks acquired at an early age. A knife I believe back in the day was considered a tool more so than it is now. They were very valuable and necessary. I think people back then most likely not only possessed the skill to sharpen knives but also many other things that needed a sharp edge. Saws of all kinds, chisels, draw knives, axes, hatchets, scythes, meat grinder blades, meat hooks and the list goes on. Folks back then used their knives for so much more than opening packages. We have to remember most used them to process animals not only for food but hides and really the whole animal. Also everything garden related not only vegetables but stakes, twine and such. Building materials were sourced from their land and were processed with sharp edged tools. I believe those pioneers could put a razor sharp edge on anything because in those days you couldn't just run down to the local department store and get what you wanted you had to make it yourself. And though there were blacksmiths and cutlers in those days there was not much money so I believe these old timers could make most anything they needed but had to keep their tools very sharp and maintain them to accomplish the things they had to do to not only survive but to thrive. These days most people have no respect for their tools and leave them dirty and unmaintained just throw them in a tool box and if they are broken or frozen up or what ever no big deal as the mindset is to just replace it. Back in the old days this was not the norm as people could not replace them so easily if at all. This is all speculation on my part because although I'm an old man I'm not that old however I really don't think I'm that far off with what I'm saying. I could go on and on about what I believe was everyday pioneer life and the need for sharp tools but I think I've said enough for you to get my point. :D
 
Both of my Grandparents had dairy/wheat farms established prior to the 40s. Both had big treadle grinding wheels in the workshop. By the time I was on scene though they'd transitioned to power tools. Not much sentimentality for the old ways when you're working from dawn to dusk every day of your life.
 
r redden said:
I want to believe that knife sharpening was a skill that most folks acquired at an early age. A knife I believe back in the day was considered a tool more so than it is now. They were very valuable and necessary. I think people back then most likely not only possessed the skill to sharpen knives but also many other things that needed a sharp edge. Saws of all kinds, chisels, draw knives, axes, hatchets, scythes, meat grinder blades, meat hooks and the list goes on. Folks back then used their knives for so much more than opening packages. We have to remember most used them to process animals not only for food but hides and really the whole animal. Also everything garden related not only vegetables but stakes, twine and such. Building materials were sourced from their land and were processed with sharp edged tools. I believe those pioneers could put a razor sharp edge on anything because in those days you couldn't just run down to the local department store and get what you wanted you had to make it yourself. And though there were blacksmiths and cutlers in those days there was not much money so I believe these old timers could make most anything they needed but had to keep their tools very sharp and maintain them to accomplish the things they had to do to not only survive but to thrive. These days most people have no respect for their tools and leave them dirty and unmaintained just throw them in a tool box and if they are broken or frozen up or what ever no big deal as the mindset is to just replace it. Back in the old days this was not the norm as people could not replace them so easily if at all. This is all speculation on my part because although I'm an old man I'm not that old however I really don't think I'm that far off with what I'm saying. I could go on and on about what I believe was everyday pioneer life and the need for sharp tools but I think I've said enough for you to get my point. :D
Click to expand...

The worn-out knives my dad tossed in the toolbox had main blades so sharpened down that when closed, the point of the blade would stick out of the handle, making them no longer suitable for pocket carry. His family never had big money when he was growing up, and he did respect his tools, but for him they were just that, tools. I never asked how he sharpened his knives. Once their life cycle ran out, into the toolbox they went, and he'd buy another. He and his 7 siblings worked very hard on that farm, and had little time to admire the craftsmanship of their knives. His fingers were extremely thick from a lifetime of work, and later in life when his dexterity got worse, he stopped carrying pocketknives and had a Buck 110 and sometimes a lightly-used Christie knife. If he were still alive today, he'd be turning 95 in December.

Jim
 
I'll invite you to see this this video by Paul sellers
He is not from the far west, but he started to work at age 16 learning from men who learn the trade in the 19th century so the knowledge of old was pass down to him.
His philosophy is quite eye opening in a lot of areas.
In the video he demonstrates what can be done with only a coarse stone
 
I don't know what kind of sharpeners were available "on the prairie" but I think Arkansas stones were sold across the country. Carborunum hones were available from around the 1890's on and many old catalogs offer various Belgium stones. What I do know from experience is if you were a cowboy with the job of turning large numbers of bull calves into steers you are going to want your knife as sharp as you can get it. It is hard for me to imagine trying to do this with a so-so half sharp blade.
 
lutejones said:
I'll invite you to see this this video by Paul sellers
He is not from the far west, but he started to work at age 16 learning from men who learn the trade in the 19th century so the knowledge of old was pass down to him.
His philosophy is quite eye opening in a lot of areas.
In the video he demonstrates what can be done with only a coarse stone
Click to expand...

I enjoyed the video but I also enjoy the subject of woodworking. A plane blade does different work than a pocket knife blade, of course, but it was interesting none the less. He does mention that for some work, like instruments, a finer edge is preferable. And of course, he also uses power tools and diamond plates when they are useful for him like reprofiling the blade for a scrub plane: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XN5QSTaVzRQ

I think to some extent, it's similar with knives. Different profiles and sharpness are best for different uses.
 
supratentorial said:
The old West could be around a 100 year time span. What time period interests you?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_American_Old_West

I may be able to pull up some relevant catalog pages and photos if the 1890s and 1910s interest you.
Click to expand...

That would certainly interest me! I know there is a large timeframe of the setting of the West (I think if the advancement from Kentucky Rifles to Metallic Cartridge Repeaters as occurring during this timeframe).
 
Macchina said:
It's a Hess Tiburon. A fantastic knife made in Michigan in same city Marbles knives used to be made.

Hess%20Knives_zpspavwwwzp.jpg

DSC_1230_zps6uj68nbh.jpg
Click to expand...

Macchina I think the Hess Knives are highly under rated. I have a Pioneer that I love. Also what a great idea for a thread I've enjoyed it a lot and I hope it doesn't loose momentum any time soon. Here's my Hess Pioneer Maple Burl with a bit of Stag.


7KVkWkP.jpg
 
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