Initial impressions : Cold Steel large drop point Twistmaster

[Cliff Stamp]

I picked up a large drop point Twistmaster from Cold Steel awhile ago mainly because it seemed to me that the lock design was in
theory very secure and strong. If you combine that with a blade of the necessary size for even the larger cutting tasks, while at
the same time a high performance full flat grind and excellent edge curvature, it seemed to me to have a lot of promise as an EDC,
heavy use folder. Now of course, it would always be better to have a fixed blade, however I simply would be able to carry a
folder, even one such as large as this, more often than a fixed blade. This restriction is not because of legal issues, but just
that people tend to react a little less to a folding knife. It is not the ideal solution, but sometimes you have to compromise, I
can't carry my Battle Mistress comfortably at work.

After taking the knife out of the box I was hit with its size. I expected a large folder, but this knife is really big. It dwarfs
my Swiss Army Rucksack for example which is not a small knife. The Twistmaster is light, it only weighs 120g, but when open it is
27.5 cm long. Even folded it is 15 cm in length, and thus will readily stick out of your pocket. The edge length is 11.5 cm, but
because of the curvature you gain another cm, thus producing a total working edge that is 12.5 cm long, which is a lot of blade
for a folder. The extreme edge curvature produces a sweep of about 10 degrees down from the choil, and up towards the tip. The
handle is swelled very well in both axis, it has a 0.5 cm taper across the back, and a lighter taper vertically. It fits well in
hand, however the aggressive checkering, while no doubt very secure, will be abrasive. There is no need however for the blade
cut out in the handle to have its edges as square as they are.

At a casual inspection I was very pleased with the geometry as it promised very high performance cutting. The edge is highly
polished and will push shave hair with both sides. The blade can also be pulled smoothly right through a sheet of photocopy paper.
However it did not have that blistering sharp feel that an optimally polished blade will have. Verification came with some light
thread cutting. The Twistmaster required between 80 and 150 g to cut through the light thread with a median performance of 110 +/-
13. This confirms the feel, while quite sharp, is a little uneven and could be 10-15% better. Testing the slicing performance on
1/4" poly revealed a lack of aggression with a 500 g load, 3.1 +/- 0.4 cm of edge was required to cut the cord. However with a
1000 g load the blade sheared nicely through the poly only needing 0.50 +/- 0.05 cm of edge.

Moving on past sharpness I checked the blade geometry in some detail. The blade stock is 1/8" with a distal taper with a full
flat primary grind of about 2.1 +/- 0.2 degrees, which tapers to a very thin and acute edge. The edge starts off with an angle of
about 16 degrees near the choil, it sweeps own to about 13 degrees near the middle and then back up to about 18 degrees as it runs
towards the tip. Behind the edge the blade is decently thin, near the choil 0.022", towards the middle 0.12" (excellent), and near
the tip it thickens again to 0.21" . It is an interesting profile, you have maximum cutting ability across the middle of the blade
with the tip and the base of the blade reinforced for very heavy cutting.

To quantify the cutting ability some stock testing was performed. First off I cut points on one inch hardwood dowel. The
Twistmaster bit into the wood very strongly. Six points were made in all on different dowels and the results were very consistent,
the knife took 12.2 +/- 0.8 cuts to complete the point, very high performance indeed. This is not surprising given the very high
performance edge geometry and the fact that the edge starts only 1.5 cm in front of my index finger, thus the leverage is very
high. Using a rocking push cut on 3/8" poly, I was very pleased by which the blade so easily severed the rope, it bit in deeply
almost immediately and made a complete cut requiring only 37.0 +/- 0.9 lbs of force.

Did this cutting dull the blade? Yes, but only slightly. The thread cutting showed a little decrease, the blade now required 147
+/- 15 g to cut the thread, this was test along the area that saw the most cutting. The 1/4" poly under a 1000 g load now need 1.3
+/- 0.2 cm of edge to make the cut. A simple shaving tested confirmed that the blunting was do to edge rolling, which was not
surprising considering the dowel cuts were all made on one side of the blade under a high load (about 75 lbs). To bring the blade
back to optimal performance I spent some time on a leather hone loaded with CrO buffing compound. Twenty passes were made
alongside both sides of the blade which removed the fold in the edge. The blade now sheared through the 1/4" poly under the 1000 g
load only needing 0.30 +/- 0.05 cm of edge, this was better than the NIB performance.

Ok, so the cutting ability is very high. Are there any problems? Yes. First off the action of the blade is *very* stiff. If I put
a little oil on the blade it is near impossible to pinch it tight enough to draw and the nail nick actually exerts enough load to
make it a little uncomfortable. To be a little more precise, it takes about 14.8 +/- 0.5 in.lbs of torque to actually pivot the
blade out of the handle. Closing it is a little easier, it only needs about 7 in.lbs of torque to collapse. The locking ring is
also very difficult to turn, a little lubricant on it and it is near impossible to lock or unlock. Even when cleaned it is easily
possible to jam solid if you over tighten when locking and with some use it becomes near impossible to release. On the positive,
the locking ring has an angled cutout which should act as a mechanism to counter act wear, it could be cut similar on the bottom
to lock the blade in the handle.

On the positive, the lock is very secure and has no problems with spine whacks, white knuckling or torquing. The only way to
induce an accidental release would be if your hand ramped up on the blade on a deep thrust and then you torqued on the handle thus
moving the locking ring. However given how difficult the locking ring is to move, I don't see this as very possible, so I would
judge the lock as among the most stable I have seen. However in regards to raw strength it appears really weak. The locking ring
is only 0.02" thick and would thus readily be compacted. The back stop of the blade also rests against just the plastic handle and
thus it would also get damaged if the blade was to see impacts. In regards to lateral stress, again it is just plastic holding
the blade in place, I don't see much effort required to put serious play in the blade.

My main problem with the knife is the lock of coherent design. You have a very large blade of decent thickness with a lock that
sacrifices ease of opening and closing for security and strength. This implies a knife that is designed for serious heavy use.
However the very low strength of the lock and the fact that the main strength of the body depends on just hard plastic really only
makes it suitable for low stress cutting. On the positive, this knife could be made very strong and dependable with just a few
minor modifications. If a much thicker and stronger locking ring was used as well as a steel backstop for the blade, the strength
increase would be incredible and the folder might actually be a decent replacement for a fixed blade.

I was going to take this blade apart after a brief inspection told me that it didn't have the strength in the lock that I wanted
for a folder of this size, however after discussing some work with Jimbo, I didn't feel it was necessary, and a friend expressed
interest in the knife so I will give it to him after using it for a few weeks to see if I missed anything performance wise. Jimbo
also has some commentary about this knife which is worth reading :

http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/5404/survival/tm.html

-Cliff

 

[Professor]

I picked up a clip-point large Twistmaster at SMKW about a month ago for $11.99. Despite the inadequacies that you point out, I still think it's about the best value on the market in terms of an almost "disposable" camp knife.

I've used it for cutting venicin tenderloins into strips for grilling at camp, and I think this is where the Twistmaster really shines... as a camp kitchen knife. The only drawback of the superbly sharp and functional blade steel is that it's carbon steel of course, but when a knife costs this little, some blade color change is perfectly acceptible to me.

I hear ya in regard to the need for some type of stop pin. Only this would increase manufacturing costs significantly, since the handle would then likely need to be two screw-joined halves rather than the current molded, one-piece handle. The locking ring on the other hand is an easy area of improvement; like you say, it only really needs to be thicker.

All in all, however, I definitely think the Twistmaster is a notch above it's Opinel counterparts. Long-term, I think the Zytel handle and locking ring on the Twistmaster are gonna outlive the wood handle and chrome-plated metal ring on my Opinel. The improvements that Cliff makes mention of would be welcomed refinements, and would indeed serve to make a great knife (at a great price) even better.

While I wouldn't use the Twistmaster for any really heavy chores, it really and truly shines in the camp kitchen.

Professor.

 

[Joe Talmadge]

Thanks Cliff! I've been looking at the Twistmasters for years. Looking at the pics, I see a knife with a whole lot of potential. Carbon V blade with good edge geometry is appealing right off the bat. But most people who have a Twistmaster inevitably seem to have big gripes about the action, unfortunately. The Twistmaster is Cold Steel, once again, just not quite doing it for me when it comes to folders.

Joe

 

[DancesWithKnives]

I've got the model Cliff & Jimbo tested, as well as the black coated tanto blade. The latter LOOKS like a folding version of the CS Recon Tanto. Unfortunately, Cliff's comments on strength are right on the money. The knife is a good value, but there's no way it can substitute for a sturdy fixed blade.

On a positive note, I've experienced good edge retention with both of mine. A friend gave one to his son, who worked in a manufacturing plant (where they don't like to see fixed blades, for some PC reason). He split and cut a lot of tough conduit with it and the edge held up well. None of his co-workers' folders could keep up.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Professor :

this is where the Twistmaster really shines... as a camp kitchen knife.

Yes, it cuts exceptionally well and would be a very nice substitute for your kitchen cutlery. In fact it would work well for any light cutting work, the only problem being the action. However if the work was extended, so you were not constantly, opening and closing the knife, this problem would not be that significant.

Joe, yes the blade geometry is simply excellent, I have knives that are a bit better but they are all customs that I specifically asked to be ground very thin. The only production blade that I have seen of this level is the Deerhunter from A.G. Russell. And the Twistmaster, because of the extreme blade curvature would actually outcut the Deerhunter on a lot of tasks, rocking cuts through rope for example.

DWK, yes, it is a high carbon alloy steel, and CS takes them to about 59 RC. There are not a lot of folders than can match that and those that can (Benchmade) will not have anywhere near the edge geometry NIB.

For reference, to put the performance of the Twistmaster on the rope in perspective I repeated it last night with two other blades. The 52100 Allen Blade / Ed Caffery MEUK and an Ed Schott test blade. The MEUK took 41 +/- 2 lbs, and the Ed Schot blade 30 +/-1 . Ed's blade does so well because it is a fully ground blade, with only a hint of a secondary edge bevel, 0.01" behind the edge which is ground at 12 degrees.

The MEUK being only about 0.005" thick behind the bevel does well but the edge angle of about 20 degrees hampers it somewhat, it is however extremely durable, I have used it to cut poultry bones and split knotty wood with no problems. If I lowered the edge angel to the level of the Twistmaster it should reach about 30 lbs on the rope, and if I took it down to the same level of the Schott blade it would cut the rope like water only needing about 23 lbs.

I will be adjusting the edge angle later on to check out the validity of these estimates as well as to look at some aspects of edge finish at low angles, <10 degrees per side.

-Cliff

 

[Jimbo]

Congratulations on an awesome review, Cliff!

The Twistmaster is certainly a "different" kind of knife - especially in the large version. I'll be getting the page finished with some more pictures comparing the size to a maglite etc - so people can really see the size. I had to put a bunch of stuff on hold for a while.
The feeling that I'm left with is the same as everyone else's - for just a little more effort on Cold Steel's part this could have been a super knife. I keep thinking that one day someone is going to post a solution to the thin locking ring. Probably the day I give mine away someone will find a type of hardened tube that can be cut up and fitted without too much trouble..
For cheap people like me, it would be great to have an inexpensive folder that would be suitable as a good bush knife. The TM would get people by for a while, but unfortunately that thin locking ring just won't take the battering of a baton well to cut even small poles. It won't become dangerous by letting go, but you'll see by the pictures that the lower edge fits the back blade stop at an angle and so will dent almost immediately. One's likely to have an accident trying to fix things, too.
I still think that for $12 US this is a "must" knife to have - just to play with - to see all the features that Cliff has pointed out. where the knife really suffers is in comparison to even cheaper Moras which are lighter and tougher. Maybe we expect a lot of a cheap folder.
Again - I think that we have to be appreciative of Cliff's thorough work. There's a lot of difference between a set of pictures and impressions that I put up and a thorough review such as the one above.

 

[knifenerd]

IMHO, some reasonable,standards need to be developed to evaluate knife performance. This may be very difficult.

Makers and manufacturers may not like it.

The very good faith but anecdotal info we get is entertaining and readable but of limited use without some standards we can all get a grip on.

Keep up the great comments. But is there any chance of some sort of objective standards??

 

[Ripper]

I hear ya in regard to the need for some type of stop pin. Only this would increase manufacturing costs significantly, since the handle would then likely need to be two screw-joined halves rather than the current molded, one-piece handle. The locking ring on the other hand is an easy area of improvement; like you say, it only really needs to be thicker.

I'm not familiar with the construction of the the Twistmaster's locking ring mechanism. On the Opinels I own, the locking ring revolves around an internal metal ring that acts as the blade backstop.
Is this internal ring absent on the Twistmaster?
Regards, Greg

 

[bansidthe]

Yes, the internal ring is missing. There is a tiny platic tab on the top of the ring which guides the locknig collar since it sits in slot cut into the collar. I agree that it does not seem as strong as the opinel. However the handles on the opionel well in damp weather since they are wood. I finisher the wood with tung oil but of course it still absorbs moisture. the twist masters do become easier to open with use.... I have had one for a couple of years and it has become easier to open as it has worn.

I love its cutting ability but don't entirely trust its inhernt strenght.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Jimbo :

I still think that for $12 US this is a "must" knife to have

Yes, I could not agree more with that. You could learn a lot from using this knife.

bansidthe:

love its cutting ability but don't entirely trust its inhernt strenght.

I should clarify that I don't think this blade is a lot weaker than most other folders I have used. While as Jim noted the Twistmaster will not take assisted chopping, I can't think on any folder that I have used that could, nor any that are promoted as able to do so.

I have used a few of the 1000 in.lbs class folders and they will readily fall apart under even medium class impacts with assisted chopping/splitting. The arc-lock from Sog on my Vision for example simply fell completely apart when I was splitting some knotty pieces of wood. I unlocked the Buck/Strider twisting it in a pieces of wood, and induced heavy play just by doing a lot of assisted heavy push cutting.

Dick :


[performance descriptions]

of limited use without some standards we
can all get a grip on

Yes, a critical problem. In regard to the above numbers I can judge the performance of the blade based on my past experience. I can also judge how the performance relates to other uses as I have done them so they are correlated. But if you have not, then it is difficult to judge what the numbers actually mean.

This is why I have chosen a set of stock tests to do and have been performing them with a large amount of knives. I do sharpness tests on thread and 1/4" poly, cutting tests on dowel and 3/8" poly, and chopping tests on wood. Because the tests are on standard materials (or share a common baseline), they can all be compared against each other.

This means if you have used one of the knives (or even something very similar) you can use your perspective on its abilites to judge the performance of all of the others. For reference here is the stock testing page :

http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/knives/blade_testing.html

It is still very much a work in progress, for example I have to include in the dowel cutting the effect of the variance from dowel to dowel. That will stabilize in time as I add more cuts on different dowels. This will shift the ranks a little, but they should settle down in time. Some of the tests are give results that are a little skewed, the dowel testing for example is influenced by fatigue more than I would like it to be. Again this is being improved on.

As you can see there are some things like grip stability and ergonomics, edge durability, sheath durability, that don't have standard tests, some are easy to think on, the grip security for example I can do by testing grip retention under specific loads, but ergomomics is a lot more difficult because of the nature of the performance grading, ie. its a comfort issue.

In regards to makers/manufacturers not wanting standard tests, yes there are those who have this attitude, I don't see this as a significant problem though as you simply don't include their work. It is not like there is a shortage of quality makers.


As always, suggestions welcomed.

-Cliff

 

[speedrck]

I've had several twistmasters come throught my shop. I found that if you wrap your index finger and thumb around the locking ring so you're putting equal pressure all the way around the ring it turns much easier. When I put my index finger tip and thumb tip on opposite sides of the ring I couldn't open or close the ring. Give the equal pressure around the ring (carefully) a try and let me know if it works for you.
Ray

 

[Jimbo]

I put up a pic of a twistmaster in sheath with a 4"x1/2" ferro rod tucked in and a 2 AA celled minimag light for people to compare sizes. It's on my Twistmaster page as above.