Insurance at the buyer’s expense

Is there not also a fee when funds are being converted too?

On more of the OPs message the main exception is when dealing with international shipping but that is rarely is ever posted in the sales thread and instead communicated between the seller and potential buyer in more private communications. I will say I pass along most the of the costs to the buyer if I know that shipping + adequate insurance is $13 instead of a normal $7 then the price I list has included that along with the PP fees. So as an example if I sell an item for $90 the real value of the item is closer to $75 as between fees and shipping w/ insurance to cover $50-$100 I am looking at ~$15 in total fees.
 
Peter Hartwig said:
I agree that the insurance is for the seller. I would just avoid this seller unless I really wanted the item bad. He(or she) is basically saying that he isn't taking any responsibility once the item is shipped. IMO this is wrong and a poor attitude. What else does this seller not want to be responsible for? I would pass. PP should rule in your favor, but it's a screwed up deal if I have to go to PP for resolution.
Now if the seller is taking full responsibility , but chooses to self insure rather than buying the insurance, that is a different story.
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I had a bad experience with a seller once. I (foolishly, in hindsight) paid him F&F because he had stellar reviews. Lo and behold, the package arrives and the box is empty full of stamps that say "received without contents". It was taped up poorly and must've been stolen along the way. I asked the seller for a refund because it was clearly his fault. He said he wasn't responsible after shipping and that if I wanted insurance I could've asked and paid for it. Because I did F&F I'm out $355. Fuck that guy.
 
I always ask for people to pay me G & S, in saying that I have in the past GIVEN people the cheaper option if they want it - but through this thread I have stopped offering that option now.
My friends in the States tell me they do not pay a fee if paying friends and Family - I pay 5%.
Solid - yeah that hurts loosing a Knife that much, never would I send something of that value without full insurance, track and Trace- the works!
Sorry to hear that.

Actually for the first time ever! a parcel is being returned to me ( from the USA back to New Zealand ), as the buyer mistakenly made an error in his own address - which I do feel for him, always when I sell - I partially pay some of the shipping because its expensive, but I feel this time I have already paid out of my own pocket once, and I do expect the buyer to pay full shipping this second time around as he did make the mistake of his very own address.
What are your thoughts on this one folks? Thanks in advance.
Duncan.
 
Campbellclanman said:
Actually for the first time ever! a parcel is being returned to me ( from the USA back to New Zealand ), as the buyer mistakenly made an error in his own address - which I do feel for him, always when I sell - I partially pay some of the shipping because its expensive, but I feel this time I have already paid out of my own pocket once, and I do expect the buyer to pay full shipping this second time around as he did make the mistake of his very own address.
What are your thoughts on this one folks? Thanks in advance.
Duncan.
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It happened to me on an international transaction. After floating around the postal systems for over a month it landed back to me. I told them I would ship it again if they paid full costs, and this time I would take no responsibility for it making it there. If they weren't happy with that option I would refund their money.
 
Campbellclanman said:
Just so you guys can see what happens when I pay Friends and Family here in New Zealand.

My good Friend Paul - I sent him some money for a trip we have coming up, like I tried to tell you guys in the previous comments that using Friends and Family does not rip off Paypal- as you can see they took 5%, I sent him US$320.00, my total bill came to $335.42, which is the same percentage as G&S, hence me being slightly offended when people called me a rip off when I have never done so for using friends and Family, you guys may not get charged a fee using this- but it seems we do here in NZ.
Please see below...
COPY OF TRANSACTION PAGE:

Summary
12 November 2019
Paul Hilborn
-negative $335.42
Payment sent
Repeat this transaction
Paid with
VISA Credit Card x-( deleted for this post )
You'll see "PAYPAL *PAULHILBORN" on your card statement.
Exchange rate
$552.57 NZD = $335.42 USD
1 NZD = 0.607 USD
Transaction ID
7SX09905MM999315G
Sent to
Paul Hilborn
( Pauls email deleted for this post )
Note
Thank you my friend
Details
Sent to Paul Hilborn
$320.00
Fee
$15.42
Total
$335.42


Print details
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Sounds like you just sent money rather than buying/selling something. That is exactly what F&F is for.
 
I do think insurance is primarily for the seller's benefit. I see no problem stating you will add the insurance cost to something that is shipped. If I do this (no insurance), I take responsibility that if the package does not arrive, I will refund the money at a loss to "me". I do pay for tracking as not all buyers are honest about receiving their packages. You pay not to take risks.
 
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craytab said:
Sounds like you just sent money rather than buying/selling something. That is exactly what F&F is for.
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After our discussions, I agree, but I did want you guys over there to know that from my experience - when using Friends and Family here in NZ - we still pay the fees, the same fees as using G&S so I couldn't see why you had the negative comments for using F& F as Paypal were getting their Money either way, simply after these discussions, I have changed my sale Threads a wee bit and do not give the cheaper Freight option, and use only the one that has Insurance, Tracking - the works!
 
"Welcome to PayPal!

This user agreement is a contract between you and PayPal, Inc. governing your use of your PayPal account and the PayPal services. It applies to U.S. PayPal accounts only. If you are an individual, you must be a resident of the United States or one of its territories and at least 18 years old, or the age of majority in your state of residence to open a U.S. PayPal account and use the PayPal services. If you are a business, the business must be organized in, operating in, or a resident of, the United States or one of its territories to open a U.S. PayPal account and use the PayPal services

By opening and using a PayPal account, you agree to comply with all of the terms and conditions in this user agreement. The terms include an agreement to resolve disputes by arbitration on an individual basis. You also agree to comply with the following additional policies and each of the other agreements on the Legal Agreements page that apply to you:
...

The fees applicable to sending money can be found on our Fees for Sending Money to Friends and Family page and will be disclosed to you in advance each time you initiate a transaction to send money to a friend or family member. If you convert money in your Cash Account balance or in your business PayPal account balance from one currency to another before sending money, PayPal’s transaction exchange rate (including our currency conversion spread) will be used. If you use your credit card as the payment method when sending money, you may also be charged a cash-advance fee by your card issuer.

You can also use the send money feature in your PayPal account to pay for goods or services. You will not be charged any transaction fee for sending money to purchase goods or services as long as you choose the “send money to pay for goods and services” feature in your PayPal account. In that case, the seller will pay a fee. You must not use the “send money to a friend or family member” feature in your PayPal account when you are paying for goods or services.

Ineligible items and transactions under PayPal’s Purchase Protection program
...

· Payments sent using PayPal’s friends and family functionality.

If you use your PayPal account to receive payments for the sale of goods or services or accept donations, you must:

· Pay any applicable fees for receiving the funds.

· Not ask your buyer to send you money using the “send money to a friend or family member.” If you do so, PayPal may remove your PayPal account’s ability to accept payments from friends or family members.
·
No surcharges
You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions."
 
Campbellclanman said:
Obvious in the U.S there is a difference of few charging compared to NZ.
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...... F&F is free if you are not converting the currency or funding the transaction from a credit card, so if you are converting to/from $NZ to another such as $US you get the PalPal conversion rate plus a fee and if you are sourcing the $s you send (or those which are sent to you) you pay the % as that is generally a merchant fee that is charged by the credit card provider to the merchant (in this case PayPal) for using their credit card facility (both fees are more akin to cost recovery than a charge). I am not a flag bearer for PayPal by any standard but they provide a service for many of us (particularly outside the US) for facilitating these transactions, it's their business and without some mechanism for making $s from it, they would not do it. F&F will eventually go away I suspect.
 
Thank you for that. I think that the model of PayPal is very good - it works well - although it is expensive.
Their higher exchange rate makes them a lot of money- as do their fees - which are far more higher than any credit card fee, but hey - user pays and we have a choice to use it or not :thumbsup: I choose to use it - It’s fast and efficient!
 
Andy the Aussie said:
...... F&F is free if you are not converting the currency or funding the transaction from a credit card, so if you are converting to/from $NZ to another such as $US you get the PalPal conversion rate plus a fee and if you are sourcing the $s you send (or those which are sent to you) you pay the % as that is generally a merchant fee that is charged by the credit card provider to the merchant (in this case PayPal) for using their credit card facility (both fees are more akin to cost recovery than a charge). I am not a flag bearer for PayPal by any standard but they provide a service for many of us (particularly outside the US) for facilitating these transactions, it's their business and without some mechanism for making $s from it, they would not do it. F&F will eventually go away I suspect.
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I buy vet stuff from a place in Australia (hence the conversion) because I don't need a vet's prescription to buy stuff from them; mostly flea treatment stuff. My vet charges $50 a pop to apply the topical treatment and we have a lot of treatments to do all at once. The only issue I have with them is that it takes about three to four weeks to ship from there to the US. Some of the Germany based options are the same price and shipping usually takes about one to two weeks max.

If I sell a firearm and ship to the buyer's FFL dealer and it is as I represented, should the buyer reject the item for any reason, I take whatever fees that apply to me from the funds they sent me and return the rest. I usually have to pay FFL fees to retrieve a gun from a dealer should it be returned.
 
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