Is 440c a decent blade steel for hard use?

B

Bennett Richards

Joined
May 22, 2000
Messages
185
Any opinions on 440C as blade sterl for a hard use knife?

Does it hold an edge

Sorry for the newbie questions.....:confused:

Thanks,

Rich
 
Depends on brand and heat treat.

Not on hard woods for a long time in my experience.
 
Being stainless it is naturally less prone to "stresses" like prying and etc. It is more brittle than say 1075 or even 1095. That being said, if the heat treat is done correctly, in this regard meaning it is done with the intent of maximum toughness for the steel, 440C is perfectly fine for some rough use. ENTREK uses 440C exclusively, and their heat treat makes the steel really tough while maintaining the stainless benefit. Pretty much for any knife, any steel, stainless or not, it comes down to heat treat which is arguably the most important aspect of a knife's steel.

It is gonna depend on what use you are talking about. Chopping, I'd go with a carbon for ease of resharpening and to reduce the risk of snapping a blade. If you mean hard use as in cutting hard substances, light to moderate prying, etc, then 440C is probably fine. The difference between prying is with a stainless you're likely to get a snapped blade whereas carbon is more likely to bend IF any damage occurs at all
 
Bennett Richards said:
Any opinions on 440C as blade sterl for a hard use knife?

Does it hold an edge

Sorry for the newbie questions.....:confused:

Thanks,

Rich
Click to expand...

Who's making it? Remember the heat treatment is crucial

I can make chocolate chip cookies with the same ingredients as Ruth Wakefield but they still don't taste as good.
 
Define what you consider as "hard use"

If well made, it is quite adequate for most knife use applications. As others have pointed out, it isn't "as" tough as non stainless varieties, but that's not to say it isn't tough at all, and made well, is one of the tougher and well balanced of the stainless varieties without sacrificing edge holding, strength, and stainless attributes too much.
 
Last edited:
Bennett Richards said:
Any opinions on 440C as blade sterl for a hard use knife?

Does it hold an edge

Sorry for the newbie questions.....:confused:

Thanks,

Rich
Click to expand...
No steel is top notch at everything. Toughness and edge holding are contrary properties.

440C holds a decent edge. It holds an edge better than carbon steel, but carbon steel is tougher.

My standard advice for new folks is to buy a knife from a major knife company. Let the knife company choose the steel for their knife. It is their business to do that. And they will choose a steel with properties appropriate for the intended usage of the knife. Benchmade, Spyderco, KaBar, Busse, and a half dozen other companies you can read about here on the forums.
 
knarfeng said:
No steel is top notch at everything. Toughness and edge holding are contrary properties.

440C holds a decent edge. It holds an edge better than carbon steel, but carbon steel is tougher.

My standard advice for new folks is to buy a knife from a major knife company. Let the knife company choose the steel for their knife. It is their business to do that. And they will choose a steel with properties appropriate for the intended usage of the knife. Benchmade, Spyderco, KaBar, Busse, and a half dozen other companies you can read about here on the forums.
Click to expand...

Very sound advice. With a purpose driven knife, a well established company is very good at picking the correct steel for the function intended. Hell even 8cr and aus8 will do most jobs just fine.
 
knarfeng said:
No steel is top notch at everything. Toughness and edge holding are contrary properties.

440C holds a decent edge. It holds an edge better than carbon steel, but carbon steel is tougher.

.
Click to expand...

You are under the impression Carbon steel is tougher because it will deform more before showing a crack. In fact, what you overlook is it takes many times the effort to get the stainless to bend to the same amount, so even if it cracks at an earlier angle, it is still far stronger than any carbon...

You are correct that stainless has better edge-holding than any Carbon steel. 440C is, in my experience, the best of all "conventional" steels for cutting various materials, and equal or better than S30V...

Jay Fisher on the toughness advantages of 440C stainless:

"High tensile strength. Specifically, this is the maximum load that a steel can bear without stretching permanently. This is typically the strength factor of steel that is critical to making a steel choice. How different are the stainless tool steels than standard carbon steels? Incredibly different. The tensile strength of 1025 standard carbon steel is 440 MPa (megapascals) or 63,816 pounds per square inch. This seems enormous, but remember that many hundreds or perhaps thousands of PSI of pressure are applied to the microscopic cutting edge. The strength of 440C high chromium martensitic tool steel? How about 2030 MPa (294,426 PSI), over four and a half times stronger! "

This is why swords in good stainless are perfectly viable, even if they appear somewhat less flexible... For industrial use, 440C is still THE standard to which all other steels are compared... It is still unmatched for shape stability in high pressure industrial ball bearings for instance.

Gaston
 
Yeah but 1025 is a very soft steel and AFAIK never used in knives. I'm talking like 1075 or 1095 the latter is used for prybars a lot too
 
440C was improved to 154CM which was improved to CPM154 which an excellent performer !!
 
I would think that one could find a pretty nice custom on this site for $200+...
Take a look around or see if you can commission a knife to be made For You.


Take a look in my sig for JK Knives subforum link.
 
Gaston444 said:
You are under the impression Carbon steel is tougher because it will deform more before showing a crack. In fact, what you overlook is it takes many times the effort to get the stainless to bend to the same amount, so even if it cracks at an earlier angle, it is still far stronger than any carbon...

You are correct that stainless has better edge-holding than any Carbon steel. 440C is, in my experience, the best of all "conventional" steels for cutting various materials, and equal or better than S30V...

Jay Fisher on the toughness advantages of 440C stainless:

"High tensile strength. Specifically, this is the maximum load that a steel can bear without stretching permanently. This is typically the strength factor of steel that is critical to making a steel choice. How different are the stainless tool steels than standard carbon steels? Incredibly different. The tensile strength of 1025 standard carbon steel is 440 MPa (megapascals) or 63,816 pounds per square inch. This seems enormous, but remember that many hundreds or perhaps thousands of PSI of pressure are applied to the microscopic cutting edge. The strength of 440C high chromium martensitic tool steel? How about 2030 MPa (294,426 PSI), over four and a half times stronger! "

This is why swords in good stainless are perfectly viable, even if they appear somewhat less flexible... For industrial use, 440C is still THE standard to which all other steels are compared... It is still unmatched for shape stability in high pressure industrial ball bearings for instance.

Gaston
Click to expand...

Strength and Toughness do not mean the same thing regarding Steel attributes.

Carbon varieties are inherently "tougher" (flexible, will bend, edges will roll, but won't break)
Even where many stainlesses can oftentimes be "stronger" (higher hardness, harder to bend but will break, and edges will chip rather then roll)
 
With proper geometry and heat treat, 440C sure can be a decent steel for medium size hard use knife but it wouldn't be the best choice for large chopper/machete though.
 
Gaston444 said:
You are under the impression Carbon steel is tougher because it will deform more before showing a crack. In fact, what you overlook is it takes many times the effort to get the stainless to bend to the same amount, so even if it cracks at an earlier angle, it is still far stronger than any carbon...
Click to expand...

Strength is not what you are looking for in a tough steel.

For industrial use, 440C is still THE standard to which all other steels are compared... It is still unmatched for shape stability in high pressure industrial ball bearings for instance.
Click to expand...

Don't be ridiculous. Don't try to snow a materials engineer. 440C has limited use in industry. It's primarily used for bearings. It is not used as high strength steel. It isn't even used as high strength stainless steel. It is NOT the standard for industrial steel.
 
With the correct HT and for great corrosion resistance, I like 440C a lot.
But yes, use the correct steel for the job.
rolf
 
Can't you guys read? The following is on the maker's site. A quick review shows the Mk1 was 1095. One of the new features is the upgraded steel. Gee!

"The new Cholera Mk2 has a few refinements from the orgininal but we left the award winning profile the same. Some of the great new features we have upgraded are the steel, sheath, jimping and finishes."
 
abcdef said:
Can't you guys read? The following is on the maker's site. A quick review shows the Mk1 was 1095. One of the new features is the upgraded steel. Gee!

"The new Cholera Mk2 has a few refinements from the orgininal but we left the award winning profile the same. Some of the great new features we have upgraded are the steel, sheath, jimping and finishes."
Click to expand...

What are you talking about???:confused:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top