Is 'exposure' worth the risk?

Hi guys,
I am an aspiring maker and I must say everyone here has a very strong and similar point. I think that these certain "mysterious"knifemakers who no longer linger in the light of day with their customers yet their knives sell for high $$ amounts, that is all part of their marketing plan coupled with the high volume knifemaking schedule. It (the mysterious aspect) definately lends itself to the whole demand issue. I myself am a "nobody" in knifemaking but I have noticed that since I am very part time and low run in my production time/amount that it makes my knives harder to get and a little more valuable to those who might want one from me. For instance, in the last year I have had a list of customers that just became too much to me so I could'nt accept any more orders. So, the only way someone who wantd what I had to offer had to get it through TAD. Whenever TAD got their orders from me, they sold pretty quickly (thank GOD !). Now, I am cought up a bit and can take more orders but I am still learning the whole in's and out's of this business and cannot afford to make it full time just yet. None of this would have happened without the internet and BF ! I thank BF from the bottom of my heart. I hope to do some knife shows in NYC in November and see how that turns out. I do believe that customer contact is also extremely important so the comnbination and balance of the two is key (IMHO). When I have met a knifemaker in person at a show, I feel lucky to have done so and talk and compliment them on their craft. They feed off the positive energy and appreciation you show them and you feed off the craftsmanship and artistry of their work. You may also have had your life saved somehow by the tools they make. I dream of the day I can do shows and travel with my knives and meet customers. Customers in my area can always met up with me and talk face to face with me but to meet those from elswhere or at a show with product on hand would be great I am sure. the public handling your knives before buying I am sure would put a reputation where it deserves to be. I hope I can make the November show with enough knives to get constructive criticism and feedback. Lord knows, I am my worst critic and dislike most of what I do...LOL. Cool thread.....RDT
 
Originally posted by Blade747
So by choice or simply by indifference there STILL are a lot of makers who abide by this rule.
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I didn't offer the THIRD option: These talented guys are simply too busy earning a living to poke around our watering hole!! ;)
Originally posted by Scott Cook
I try and post when I can or when I think I should.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the forums and Internet are very important avenues for all to use and should be utilized, but I also need to make a few sparks.

Scott
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Scott, thanks for taking the time to come out and respond. Your answer is clear as a bell. Why did I think anything else? (he he he, just keeping you HONEST!! ;)) Best of luck.

Thanks to all for their opinions and reading this long thread. It was very informative to me.

Coop
 
I don't think that not taking part in forums or having an internet presence is done on purpose as a marketing tool. Personally, I also don't think that this adds any mystique to a maker or his/her knives. For the most part it is my belief that those that don't take part can't be bothered or don't have the time. It is also likely that they just don't want to risk the down side. the down side being that they might run the risk of making a bad name for themselves because of not knowing how to interact on the internet. Many makers that have tried their hands on the forums have ended up poorly received. Many times with justification, many times without.

There are a lot of well known makers that can sell all the knives that they make. They probably feel that it is more productive to spend time in the shop making knives than to spend that time on the internet chatting.

Many of the makers that don't have an internet presence have been around since before there was an internet. I have talked with a few of these makers and have found that many are not comfortable with computers, and prefer doing business and talking to their customers face to face or on the phone. They would rather attend shows than have a web site.

As time goes along we will see more and more makers with web sites. As far as I am concerned this is a good thing. It is nice to be able to get a look at knives in pictures, because as much as I would love to make it to shows so that I can handle knives in person, it is unlikely that I will get this opportunity often. The pictures on a web site give me a chance to see if I like the looks of the makers knives. If I like what I see, I can then check things out more closely.

Does not having a presence on the internet add a mystique to a makers knives? Not as far as I am concerned. One thing it does do is make it harder for that maker to show his/her knives to me and to many others. If you are selling all the knives you can make then that really doesn't matter. If not, then I think it might be wise to consider the internet as a place to get better known. It has worked for hundreds of makers.
 
As a part time maker, it doesn't look good to get too far behind on knife orders. And when you lose an order, it will make people think you really didn't and when you get behind, they think you may be fishing, or something. I sell about all I make and if they don't sell, I will donate them to the ABS auction, AFC auction, or the AKA auction.
Before I get a line forming for the donated items, All I am and about all I will be, I owe to these fine organizations. They took a self taught dummy and "showed" me how to do things. Sometimes I would be half way home when I would finally figure out what they was talking about. A donated item is a tax write off, it helps the organization that sponsors knifemaking, forging, or education in the particular fields. If there is low attendance at the auction, some one will make a very good buy and will have a hand made knife that is of very high quality. The more I give, the more I get, and the easier it is to be "a knife maker". Ninety percent of the people on the streets will look at you kind of funny when you tell them what you do. That is the people that the ten percent is trying to educate. The internet is a great place, knife shows are a great place, the cafe is a great place, the "put the name of the place you are at" is a great place, to help educate the ninety percent. This is one of the few times that I will post because most of the time it is in the shop section where I may be able to contribute a helpful hint or two to another knifemaker just getting started. When I first started, it was 5 years before I even knew that they made tool steel (O1) that was already flat :).
I have found that if you will state an opinion as an opinion, there are usually no flame wars started. And I do remember some of the early flame wars. It really wasn't an educational experience.
This post has been a little bit long and yes, I can see where some of the knifemakers would have a problem with a lot of postings, especially if they didn't come to learn. I always figured it was like a buffet, you just take what you need and leave the rest till you want it.
 
Really good thread! Personally, I've wondered about both sides of this issue and I've never come to any strong conclusions. The benefits of the Internet are obvious; just for the information alone.

On the other side there clearly is something created by a little mystery? It's the excitement of the possibility of discovering something new and wondering what else might be there. Overexposure does just the opposite.

It would be hard to say for sure how this plays out in the world of custom knives. I might wonder if it would vary depending on the type, quantity, and quality of the knives being made.
 
Thanks for the mention Mongo!

Tough question. personally I think being an active part of the knife comunity helps, especially for the new guy. Helps get their name out there, people get to see their work, hear from others who have handled, bought, tested, and or fondled the makers work.
I see no real reason that a maker should be a hermit, personally I`ve found that regular posts and replies help with knife sales.
I actually enjoy "trying" to help out others, and I like all the info available to myself and others. Myself as well as others feel we can definitely benifit from visiting these forums. I have learnt alot more through these forums, than reading books that may be biased to ones preferences, here, everyone can have input and you can listen or not listen to the multiple suggestions on say, "how to satin finish".
I don`t know if I answered anything here, but it was just my opinion anyways.
I love these forums, and they can be very addicting, and take away from my shop time.. :D
 
The forums are an opportunity to share thoughts about knives that all too oftem go unspoken. All too often decisions are made and no one speaks out this is a place where all have a place to comment, this is good. It takes courage to sitck your neck out, but by doing so there is the potential for progress. We can also learn how to communicate ideas and learn from the interaction. Those who participate grow. Those who simply read may one day join and we all gain, most importantly our friend lady knife will benefit.
 
Originally posted by db
Code I think you are the one who is missing out. I mostly agree with Dogman and as it has been said the net is still a small part of the knife world. Don't limit yourself to just the net makers. If you do you are really missing out.
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I should have been a little more clear on what I meant by exposure.

The various forums, as well as the makers website, and magazines, are going to be my main exposure to a custom maker. Sure, I'd like to visit makers at shows, but that is nearly impossible, since most shows are out of state, and in most cases, across the country. Note I live in Washington State.

I agree with the majority here; I'd rather hold a makers work, and discuss it with him/her in person, but for the majority of us, that is nearly impossible, due to the cost of travel, lost work time, ect.
 
i had the pleasure of speaking with walter brend today (for about 15 min - just long enough for me to feel like i was taking too much of his time), soon after buying a model 2 fighter.

first of all, walter is as country as it gets, "chillin" in south carolina on benton farm road. he chuckled when i said i was from california & called it a bad place to be! i doubt whether he even gives much of a hoot about listening to the sounds of internet dial up.

i asked him what makes his knives special, and he said it's his experience and applied input from other users in the military and many other walks of life. he also has a special heat treatment method that he was unwilling to divulge (of course!). i don't know how many know that walter was a butcher for 15 yrs before he got into the knifemaking craft over the past 23 years, working in close contact with the entire range of US military forces.

i gave him some honest flattery and told him that its seems his blades were made by the hand of God himself. he said matter-of-factly that they are hand-done by God through a country boy who was blessed enough to have been chosen as the earthly instrument. "amen" i said.

so yeah.. some dudes are way too country to kick it on the net, lol... especially when their orders are backlogged for 2 years.
 
Originally posted by the45guy
...I for one applaud all the makers who give time to us on all the forums . It probably gives them a boost as well to read about how others are enjoying their work .:D Just one mans opinion....
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...make that TWO man's opinions! :D :D :D
 
Originally posted by Blade747
I didn't offer the THIRD option: These talented guys are simply too busy earning a living to poke around our watering hole!! ;)
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That's part of it for sure.

I wonder how some of the guys that hang out on the forums quite a bit every get any knives made!! (Like the ones I want) :(

Perhaps the current up and coming generation of knifemakers will consider it more important. Perhaps it will always be its own separate territory.

I think Internet-based dealerships are a far more important for reaching out to new buyers than knifemaker websites. Most knifemaker websites are of very poor quality. They are rarely, if ever, updated. Many rely on poor quality photography (which is worse than nothing at all IMO) and are usually months and years out of date in terms of what the maker is actually doing. I know its not easy, but in this case, I think half a loaf is worse than a whole loaf.

Going to shows is critical in buying expensive knives. There is nothing worse to shell out $600 (or more) on a knife that you just love from an Internet dealer, receive it, and then realize that the grip isn't really right for your hand, or the thumbstud design isn't right for you, etc.

Even though spending money to go to shows will cost you, it will save you money over the long run if you plan on continuing buying expensive knives.

Most of the custom knives I own are from makers that do not hang out on any of the forums. I don't know much about the makers, except that they make exceptional folding knives. :)
 
The internet has become one of the main players in the custom knife market. Not all makers are involved , but plenty of top makers participate. Jerry Fisk, Ed Fowler, Ernie Emerson and Tom Mayo to name a few, all regularly talk on the forums and the knives they make are in extremely high demand. Granted that knife shows are the best place to see many makers in a small amount of time, but usually the best product is sold the night before or the morning of the first day. The market has changed between dealer sites and auctions like ebay, plenty of high end knives change hands. Over the years I have bought plenty of high value knives, e.g. Moran and Loveless from places like A. G. Russels' Cutting Edge but the internet has caused him to close his site which used to be one of the main sources for knives on the secondary market.
 
There is one maker that I am very interested in getting aknife from that you never see on the internet. He has no web site and no email address and I have only seen two of his knives. Good thing he has a phone so I can call him and an address that I can send mail to. His name is Michael Connor and I am pretty positive that he does not do this to add any mystique to his knives. I just don't think he has the time or inclination to get involved in the internet.

I would love to get a chance to handle some of his knives, but I don't even think he exhibits at knife shows. From what I can tell, he is too busy with his other job to make many knives and doesn't want the publicity that the internet and shows would bring him. I imagine there are other maker that feel the same way.
 
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