Is there any PRACTIAL difference?

[knarfeng]

This needs to be a discussion of knives. Please post accordingly.

 

[Gradon]

Hey fellas... Imperial Schrade vs Just Schrade. Is there a Pratical difference there? Say between two trappers for instance?

 

[WA Martin]

The practicality is most probably personal. I can sharpen an US Schrade much more easily and efficiently than a non-US Schrade.

I bought an Imperial Schrade because it was a good deal a couple three years ago. I kept it to remind myself why a $9 knife can be over-priced. Fit and finish are horrible. Never used it enough to see how it sharpened or anything else though so no real knowledge to pass on.

 

[cchu518]

Try the new ones they ain't bad at all!

 

[Nixelplix]

I just wish they were still made with 1095.

 

[Primble]

My apologies, guys, if I make too much of this ......... but there is no Schrade anymore. There is a company that has knives manufactured for them in China and stamps the word "Schrade" on them (as is their right since they now own that trademark). But that's different than there being a Schrade company. So phrases like "Schrade now makes their knives in China" and "Schrade moved their production to China" are not accurate. Sadly, the Schrade company ceased to exist a good long time ago.

Agreed

 

[Pondoro2310]

I'm tempted to buy the Schrade. I got a Lansky knock off of the Buck 110 last summer as a prize for entering a raffle that supported a youth shooting program. I then bought a real Buck 110 and I'm comparing them. Both seem sturdy. The Lansky came with a bad sharpening job which I fixed. Since then the Buck holds its edge longer, but both work. Not to dwell too much on price but that Lansky can be found anywhere from 1/8 the cost of the Buck to 3/4 the cost. I'm not doing a torture test, just using them and watching.

 

[davek14]

This thread has me thinking.

I think of (USA) Schrade knives as just a decent, inexpensive tool. Kind of like what people say about Rough Rider. I never used to think twice about Schrade knives, owning cheap Imperials as a small child and going to flashier more weapon like knives like a Mercator and even a switchblade as a teenager. That rules out nostalgia for Schrades anyway.

I probably pick up Imperials when I see a deal more out of nostalgia. Those hollow slabs would crush in your back pocket, fall off, yadda

I've admittedly never tried an Imperial Schrade. Never heard an iota of good about them. Now in this thread I've heard a few people say they aren't bad of late, with Mr. Chip's post actually saying that their edge holding is superior to the USA Schrades (and he's a woodworker).

Thing is, he also said Rough Rider has superior edge holding. I've had a few of those and don't like them a lot.

I take a while to put a keen edge on a Rough Rider and it seems that as soon as I cut anything at all hard (like plastic) it dulls quickly (although not totally) and then once again it takes a lot of time to get nicely sharp again. Good old carbon steel seems to hold up at least somewhat better and gets real sharp again with a few strokes on fine emery cloth.

The only advice I've gotten is to put a more obtuse edge on the Rough Rider steel.

So this has me questioning my sharpening skills, which I know are not stellar. It also has me thinking of trying out a brand new Imperial Schrade. The Swindon key is the elephant dung in the room as well

Let me ask this though. 1095 seems fairly well respected in say, Queen. How does old Schrade steel compare to some of the more modern carbon steel offerings?

 

[pinnah]

Dave, you might ping the 3rd Dave, Obsessed With Edges on that. I find the old USA Schrade to be the best carbon I've tried for wood. It's very hard. OWE has said before that it's up near 59 Rc and based on my experience, I believe it.

But then, I think the heat treat on their 440A Schrade+ was good too. Better than Cases treatment of 420HC and as good or better than Bucks treatment of 420HC too.

Does anybody know for sure what Taylor Schrade is using. I know a lot of companies sell Chinese steel variants under the label of unqualified 440 or 420.

 

[jc57]

Supposedly 7cr17, which is equivalent to 440A.

http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=7cr17, 440a&hrn=1&gm=0

 

[AreBeeBee]

I bought a China Schrade 51OT because it was within my budget and the US Schrades of the same model weren't.

It's in the middle between the Buck 110 and the Condor Kephart.

I have to say it's not a knife I carry very often, although that's due only to its size. Perhaps if this were a favorite design and it got frequent use, I'd have discovered flaws in the import model, and these might get me seeking one of the old US-made ones. But given the price differential, and my uses for it — the Chinese-made version works just fine. (In the same way, I have a small number of Rough Rider knives bought on the assumption of light duty.)

Really, if you're unsure whether there's a practical difference — assume there is no difference, get the Chinese model, and use it. Soon enough you'll know whether you need or really want an original. And if you do, you haven't broken the bank getting the import model.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

This thread has me thinking.

I think of (USA) Schrade knives as just a decent, inexpensive tool. Kind of like what people say about Rough Rider. I never used to think twice about Schrade knives, owning cheap Imperials as a small child and going to flashier more weapon like knives like a Mercator and even a switchblade as a teenager. That rules out nostalgia for Schrades anyway.

I probably pick up Imperials when I see a deal more out of nostalgia. Those hollow slabs would crush in your back pocket, fall off, yadda

I've admittedly never tried an Imperial Schrade. Never heard an iota of good about them. Now in this thread I've heard a few people say they aren't bad of late, with Mr. Chip's post actually saying that their edge holding is superior to the USA Schrades (and he's a woodworker).

Thing is, he also said Rough Rider has superior edge holding. I've had a few of those and don't like them a lot.

I take a while to put a keen edge on a Rough Rider and it seems that as soon as I cut anything at all hard (like plastic) it dulls quickly (although not totally) and then once again it takes a lot of time to get nicely sharp again. Good old carbon steel seems to hold up at least somewhat better and gets real sharp again with a few strokes on fine emery cloth.

The only advice I've gotten is to put a more obtuse edge on the Rough Rider steel.

So this has me questioning my sharpening skills, which I know are not stellar. It also has me thinking of trying out a brand new Imperial Schrade. The Swindon key is the elephant dung in the room as well

Let me ask this though. 1095 seems fairly well respected in say, Queen. How does old Schrade steel compare to some of the more modern carbon steel offerings?

My take on Schrade's 1095 is that it's better than anything I've seen (in carbon or stainless), both in terms of REAL ease of sharpening to a literally-razor-sharp edge, and in how well those beautifully and thinly-ground blades hold those edges, with no noticeable issues of rolling or chipping. It's the gold standard against which I compare everything else. My frame of reference is my 1970s-vintage 8OT (SCHRADE N.Y. U.S.A.). It may be that some of Schrade USA's later blades in 1095 might not've been as stellar as that one; every knife manufacturer has had some inconsistency over time.

It's known that Schrade did a more progressive heat treat on a lot of their blades, to higher hardness levels than is usually attempted by makers of mid-range traditional pocketknives. They've published that some of their 1095 blades were up to ~62 HRC or so (see chart below); if that's accurate, then the 'good' examples representative of their best efforts should be much better than most done by other makers. Most mainstream traditional pocketknife makers won't stray too far from the 'usually-recommended' hardness range of HRC 55-57 with most of these steels (1095, CV, 420HC, 440A, etc). I'm inclined to believe Schrade's progressive philosophy for heat treat included their 440A blades as well (58-60 HRC, as seen in the Schrade steel chart below).

Most edge-retention issues are due to either rolling or chipping, and less due to abrasion/wear-resistance. With that in mind, the individual maker's heat treat methods and expertise will make most of the difference, as the hardness and temper (therefore the tendencies to roll or chip/break) are directly related to the heat treat. The abrasion/wear-resistance is more about the makeup of the raw steel itself (carbide content; carbides form in the raw steel's manufacture), and less due to the heat-treat afterward (though apparently it can affect it to a small degree).

(BTW, I seem to recall I spent about $70-75 when I bought my USA 8OT in 'as new' condition with original box & papers, about 4-5 years ago. I've never regretted that purchase; it's likely the best I've made. There's a lot to be learned in finding a 'best' example of how good a given knife/blade/steel can be, and then the less-than-ideal examples all of a sudden become much more apparent, when you see them.)


David

 

[Stubai]

I suppose it boils down to being a knife snob or not. Someone earlier posted that a piece of sharp metal cuts..and I agree. How long or how well it cuts may be another matter. Is it easy to sharpen? Is the metal strong enough to handle chopping? Will the metal hold up to moisture?

About three weeks ago I picked up an SOG Jungle Canopy. This knife came super sharp and met my expectations for a camp/survival knife in the lower price range. I think the trend is for foreign makers to push products that do the job for most of the people the majority of the time while not breaking the bank.

I use a 1311 these days. Is it worth the inflated price relative to the Jungle Canopy? Only you can decide that for yourself.

 

[5K Qs]

I bought a China Schrade 51OT because it was within my budget and the US Schrades of the same model weren't.
...
Really, if you're unsure whether there's a practical difference — assume there is no difference, get the Chinese model, and use it. Soon enough you'll know whether you need or really want an original. And if you do, you haven't broken the bank getting the import model.

In my opinion, those are not bad words to live by.

- GT